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EnviroLink Forum • View topic - A little different view..

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:55 am 
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http://projectwilderness.wordpress.com/ ... g-animals/

Whadda think?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:07 am 
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à chacun son goût


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:21 am 
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" … All the things you miss when moving at hiking speed seemed to jump out at you. … ..."

I've seen hunters moving through the woods very slowly and can wait patiently for hours, enhanced in their senses taking in every atom of sound, smell, sight, movement, etc., of their surroundings. Certainly, the hunting process requires a lot of time with patience in the wilderness, a heightened awareness of one's outdoor surroundings, considerable knowledge of the quarry as well as the forest and other animals that live in the forest, and one is likely privy to the kind of close encounters of animals that you can't get in other outdoor activities, maybe including hiking.

As a fairly keen hiker myself, I may be over-reacting and defensive at Asha Swem's article. But, I got the sense that, for Swem, a hiker sees, thinks and feels less or nothing, or very little, of the wilderness compared to a hunter. I have never attended a hunt in the US (just part of a trek many years ago with my uncle, who hunted for big animals in east Africa). So, I'm sure the hunter sees and experiences animals and the forest sometimes more and differently from hikers. But, I still felt Swem's article kind of dismissed hiking as a very passive, non observant activity.

I don't know what kind of hiking or hiking terrain and camping Asha Swem did. Depending on the kind of day hikes and overnight hikes, however, one can be just as alone in the wilderness and observe a lot of wildlife and vegetation and see the most incredible views. I do a lot of elevation day hiking. I can encounter lots of small animals. Also big ones and can sometimes recognise their tracks, droppings and other markings. I've had a lone coyote with me for nearly an hour, seen moose and lots of Whitetail (I see deer close up on a regular basis anyway). I know black bear are around, but have not seen them while hiking (more reported encounters in my neighbourhood). A good hiker will also learn and practice survival skills for hiking and getting lost. S/he can join a hiking club. Membership money can help for land acquisition and trail conservation, e.g. A club can also offer day classes, group hikes and camps where you learn about conservation of forest and trails, basic survival and forest safety skills, about hiking gear, indigenous animal behaviour (though likely not as in depth as hunter knowledge, unless the hiker is interested in such) and how to keep oneself safe. You learn this also from good hiking books and journals and putting tips into practice. Also, some clubs point you to other camps that offer other activities that include archery, shooting, fishing, animal tracking, and survival and knowledge skills that can be used for hiking, as well as do group hikes.

Certainly, anti-hunters and non-hunters may not realise that hunting is much more than killing an animal. But, it could be pointed out that some hunter skills and I think many of their outdoor experiences can be had outside of actual hunting activities. Hunting doesn't have the monopoly on getting up early in the morning (I'm up at 4 a.m. every week day as it is), being alone with nature, observing animals and changes in vegetation, abrupt weather changes, aloneness or brother-/sisterhood, etc. I mention hiking because the author claims to have hiked and camped, but writes like she is a very passive hiker. Again, maybe I'm over-reacting and wanting to defend one of my interests. I find it hard to believe that as she hiked, regardless of hiking speed, she missed how cold the wind was, the smell of freshness, the small rodents, or that she missed the views and the opportunity to stop and observe larger wildlife and take in the great magic of the outdoors. The purpose of hiking is not so much to look for animals, and hikers take existing trails and don't lie in wait, so the knowledge and experiences will differ and we may participate differently in the biological dramas of nature's life-death-decomposition-renewal cycle, but we often do read and think of the animals, are careful of our hiking steps to avoid their habitat and food destruction, and we do see plants and animals or evidence of them. No doubt, however, there are ill-prepared, non-observant and even slob hikers, and maybe Swem is one of them. Real hiking, which can also, like hunting, take hours even days, takes a lot of thought and preparation (and sometimes layers in clothing, as well!) and lots of time. In real hiking, for safety and pleasure and for the continued future of hiking, every step absolutely counts and should be appreciated. Hiking, like hunting, and other serious outdoors activity (veggie gardening, birding, kayaking, skiing, snowshoing, etc., etc.), can also make one a better steward, a better citizen and a better person. But, I agree that hunting is more than just killing animals and I can respect hunters as skilled and knowledgeable, restorers and protectors of wildlife and the outdoors that, and I can appreciate that in some instances it is perhaps because of hunters and hunting, I too can enjoy my hiking.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:59 am 
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I've seen the blog. The substance is good and the topic there is very clear. I vehemently disagree with hunting because yeah it is more than killing those poor animals in then wild. Although in that blog the author seems to highlight that hunting is not bad at all though in my opinion it will never be good because you are stepping in a territory to make them feel uncomfortable and worst kill some of them. Though I respect their outlook still for me hunting will never be as good. :-#


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Just came across this one by a contemporary Buddha .... now dead, but his words are alive. Could also have been posted in open forum, but there's enough content to merit its inclusion here, especially as human beings are animals.


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It is odd that we have so little relationship with nature, with the insects and the leaping frog and the owl that hoots among the hills calling for its mate. We never seem to have a feeling for all living things on the earth. If we could establish a deep abiding relationship with nature we would never kill an animal for our appetite, we would never harm, vivisect, a monkey, a dog, a guinea pig for our benefit. We would find other ways to heal our wounds, heal our bodies. But the healing of the mind is something totally different. That healing gradually takes place if you are with nature, with that orange on the tree, and the blade of grass that pushes through the cement, and the hills covered, hidden, by the clouds. This is not sentiment or romantic imagination but a reality of a relationship with everything that lives and moves on the earth. Man has killed millions of whales and is still killing them. All that we derive from their slaughter can be had through other means. But apparently man loves to kill things, the fleeting deer, the marvellous gazelle and the great elephant. We love to kill each other. This killing of other human beings has never stopped throughout the history of man's life on this earth. If we could, and we must, establish a deep long abiding relationship with nature, with the actual trees, the bushes, the flowers, the grass and the fast moving clouds, then we would never slaughter another human being for any reason whatsoever. Organized murder is war, and though we demonstrate against a particular war, the nuclear, or any other kind of war, we have never demonstrated against war. We have never said that to kill another human being is the greatest sin on earth. - Krishnamurti to Himself 25th February, 1983


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:13 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:30 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:58 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:19 pm 
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I agree with Grizzly, and just wish there were fewer hunters so I could get a chance to do it again. I also wish my back was back in the shape it was when I shouldered my first bloody deer carcass and walked over a mile with it getting heavier every yard.
The thing I hated about the blog is the fact that all the immigration since 1965 has been excessive, and here we have people that never built America coming here and hunting. More overpopulation from over-breeders escaping a crowded place to come and make our country crowded and weird. Not like the greatest generation and their kids, at all.
Sickening, really. :x

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:22 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:08 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 am 
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I'm sorry if I got to offend some of you here about my view on hunting. Sorry but that's what I stand for. I respect you guys if that's your opinion it's just that we have our own way of accepting things and situations. Peace everyone! 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:16 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:58 am 
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Again, I agree with you Grizzly. Greencarz view is irrational, as are those of, I have found, most vegetarians and anti-hunters.
For any animal life to live requires something has to die. Who is more important, the wheat plant or the grasshopper eating it? Or what is more important, the yeast or the malted barley, or the hops, in beer? Grasshopper, life is a circle, and those who flush and forget, or forget that plants are true life, have left that circle. To hunt is to live in that circle.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:00 am 
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