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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:48 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Grizzly Bear wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I agree with Grizzly, and just wish there were fewer hunters so I could get a chance to do it again. I also wish my back was back in the shape it was when I shouldered my first bloody deer carcass and walked over a mile with it getting heavier every yard.
The thing I hated about the blog is the fact that all the immigration since 1965 has been excessive, and here we have people that never built America coming here and hunting. More overpopulation from over-breeders escaping a crowded place to come and make our country crowded and weird. Not like the greatest generation and their kids, at all.
Sickening, really. :x


Where have you tried to hunt? My buddies and I hunt elk every October on public land and usually don't see another soul outside of our own party the whole week. Just takes a little homework/scouting/knowledge, good maps/GPS, a solid 4-wheel drive, and a little desire to go off the beaten path.
I'm not sure why you're angry about immigrants hunting. If they are here legally and are law-abiding and safe they should have every opportunity to enjoy this privilege. And yes, immigrants continue to build America just as they have in previous generations. All of us, including you, unless you are of pure Native American heritage, have ancestors that came here from somewhere else at some time. Really, why the bitter xenophobia?



Since the 1965 Immigration Act stopped the well thought of Immigration Quota Act of 1924, we have been increasingly inundated by people who did not build America but use it and liberal views to not assimilate or be a real benefit to this country. We found out about how we were really well overpopulated a few years later, and the un-needed growth has been from third worlders who breed excessively, don't assimilate, are not part of our heritage, demand I press 1 for English, and group together in anti-American enclaves. The nation which had its own culture, language, and won WWII and went to the moon is becoming a multi-cultural hodgepodge and weaker. If you've ever read former Colorado Governor Lamm's speech on it, you would understand my position. Nationalism, and wanting sustainability for my country are not xenophobia. That is a word used by the enemy invaders and their felonious enablers, or liberal infinite Earth whackos.

Wow. I don't know where to begin ...... I think we need to ask the question of what is America in the first place? From its inception, it has been a place that has accepted a diverse range of people from a diverse range of places. In fact, that is how it began. The indigenous peoples probably saw the new comers as people who would not assimilate and who would ONLY speak English. What is the heritage then? When newcomers form groups? ..... that is natural and not an intention to form "anti-American enclaves". The nation that you speak of, the one that had its own culture??? language??? No. These were formed as the country was also formed and the country is still being formed. It's not done! People are still coming from different countries and cultures, just as our ancestors did.

More overpopulation from over-breeders escaping a crowded place to come and make our country crowded and weird. Not like the greatest generation and their kids, at all.
Sickening, really. :x


Over population is a world wide event. The idea of borders is an ideology. Unfortunately the idea of the USA is a strong belief. We are, afterall, living on a small planet. The USA cannot be dilineated from above.

The only year I would have had help to get an elk, my draw was missed in four categories because of too many hunters and not enough game in Colorado. I can not walk more than a couple blocks anymore. If you've read, I am a decorated combat pilot of Dustoff who got his back broken getting illegally shot down, and gutted the pain 33 years. Now I'm 100% but not in a wheelchair, so don't get disabled advantage for hunting.

Shitty. Why did you join the miltary? Why did you sacrifice your ability to be physically whole? Did you need the job at the time?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:31 pm 
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The idea of borders to territories has been around since pre-history. Violation led to wars when it was a large amount. Small groups of visitors/travelers/trading people were allowed. The USA is invaded by 30 million, who are taking jobs Americans want, and taking benefits they never paid in for, and stated purposeful anti-environmental over-breeding with the goal of conquest the easy way (like the islamics in Europe have stated).
I joined the service to fight communism's spread for a small country that was too weak to fight the loss of freedom on its own. Communism is an enemy of freedom loving people, so is islam. Over-breeders are the enemy of the Earth.
The idea of one world all kumbaya is defeated by peoples who are in the above categories. It is also defeated by the fact that there is just too much variation in humans, especially in intelligence, and also in cultures and language. =D>

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:25 pm 
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Over population is a world wide event. The idea of borders is an ideology. Unfortunately the idea of the USA is a strong belief. We are, afterall, living on a small planet. The USA cannot be dilineated from above.

The only year I would have had help to get an elk, my draw was missed in four categories because of too many hunters and not enough game in Colorado. I can not walk more than a couple blocks anymore. If you've read, I am a decorated combat pilot of Dustoff who got his back broken getting illegally shot down, and gutted the pain 33 years. Now I'm 100% but not in a wheelchair, so don't get disabled advantage for hunting.

Shitty. Why did you join the miltary? Why did you sacrifice your ability to be physically whole? Did you need the job at the time?


Quote:
The idea of borders is an ideology


How is the idea of borders an "ideology". Can you further explain, please? Maybe I'm reading too much into your comment, but are you an advocate for some kind of borderless, global governance-based society?

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Unfortunately the idea of the USA is a strong belief.


Why is it unfortunate? Though the U.S. is far from perfect, it always has been, and still is, the greatest of beacon of liberty the world has known. There is a reason people from all over the world want to come here for a better life, AF. When a tragedy befalls the world, who is the first to step up? Sweden, Greece, or some other Euro-socialist nanny state? No. Cuba, North Korea, or some other tin horn third world hellhole? No. Iran, Saudi Arabia or some other tyrannical theocracy? No. It is the U.S. Again, I'm not sure what you're trying to advocate, AF.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:28 pm 
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Grizzly Bear wrote:
GreenCarz wrote:
I'm sorry if I got to offend some of you here about my view on hunting. Sorry but that's what I stand for. I respect you guys if that's your opinion it's just that we have our own way of accepting things and situations. Peace everyone! 8)


I don't find your view on hunting to be offensive. I do, however, consider it to be irrational. See my above post for an explanation as to why.


Thanks for that Grizzly Bear, I understand all of you and got your point already. Though I sounds irrational still I am not generalizing so sorry for not being clear with that. Although I believe that there are good side and bad side of hunting.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:18 am 
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Quote:
Johhny Electriglide "The idea of borders to territories has been around since pre-history. Violation led to wars when it was a large amount. Small groups of visitors/travelers/trading people were allowed. The USA is invaded by 30 million, who are taking jobs Americans want, and taking benefits they never paid in for, and stated purposeful anti-environmental over-breeding with the goal of conquest the easy way (like the islamics in Europe have stated).
I joined the service to fight communism's spread for a small country that was too weak to fight the loss of freedom on its own. Communism is an enemy of freedom loving people, so is islam. Over-breeders are the enemy of the Earth.
The idea of one world all kumbaya is defeated by peoples who are in the above categories. It is also defeated by the fact that there is just too much variation in humans, especially in intelligence, and also in cultures and language.


I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-history". If it is part of our story, then it is history. Borders began at some point in our history.
The U.S. began as an idea .... an idea that hundreds of thousands held as true. Now, hundreds of millions hold the idea as true. We have separated ourselves into nations, which are ideas and therefore ideologies. We have also separated ourselves into religions, most of them so dominant that they have become known as "world religions". Nations and religions have assumed such footholds in our belief system that we fight over them because "groups" as nation or religion become written in stone .... as if they are real. But they are not. They are a product of thought.

The world is a populated place and the people of the world spill into the US and Canada and Europe. It is inevitable. There will be more of it. You can pretty much count on it. They are "over-breeding" because of the influences of their cultures which have, for them, a lot to do with their own survival-welfare as well as religious beliefs. Yet first world countries do their part to keep them in poverty. Multinationals have long since moved into their countries to set up mines, banana plantations (hello Dole!), and factories ... and military centers. The list of takeovers is endless and multi-faceted. It is oppression of the first degree and it is focussed on making money and answering to share-holders with third world peoples and their environments as their fodder. Choas is bound to ensue when the basic needs of people - and in fact, entire countries, is at risk. Food and shelter and freedom from violence is what all people from all regions of the world require for basic security.

There is overpopulation for sure, particularly in light of the systems: economic and national, that we currently have in place. We think our problems are problems of economics or environment or ..... ? But really our crisis is a crisis of consciousness. if we don't get it, we continue to create divisiion and the division is itself, delusion. Monsanto is a multinational company and must compete with local farmers in order to do well.

Monsanto, like all corporations, is a government in itself with the usual goal of making profit and it will not solve the problem of people going hungry because it's main concern is more about profit than it is about altruism. Only local communities who can look after their own comunities will do it. That goes for the US as well. And BTW, we don't really want to buy the world a Coke. Only fascists want to buy the world a Coke!

When such a small percentage of the world's population is creating so much environmental destruction, both locally and abroad, you have to wonder about the systems in place ..... don't you?

It is far too overwhelming a conundrum to imagine that the vast problems can be solved on an international or mass level. They cannot be solved as per "other" people. There have been many revolutions and none have created any real change in human consciousness. The only way is through the Self. But for that to be real, one need first recognize that self is other. Not as opinion or belief or perspective, but as simple fact. Ever single one of us needs food, shelter and basic security and none of us experiences life in a vacuum. One person's experience of being human is akin to the next persons'.

We made up the ideas seemingly forever entrenched as economic, national and religious, but they are still just ideas. All people require freedom and so are freedom loving and that is why they are moving in droves to North America and Europe. The over-breeders, as you csll them, are a result of vast inequalities in the way we do business. We are endowed with the ability to behave more intelligently as a very small planet in a vast universe. How far above our planet does one need to travel in order to seee a planet without borders? It was us who created those borders. Our crisis is a crisis in consciousness.

Let there be differences in language and cultures and intelligence. Variation is what the world and even universe is made of and humans are one part of that variation. There has never been anything but variation. I hope you would not like to put an end to that as there have been people before you who have had the same idea and have tried to eliminate those differences ..... and have, of course, failed but not without much destruction and unwarranted suffering.

We have huge problems amongst us and they are strengthend by the ideas (ideologies) of nationalism and religion. There is absolutely no way for one group of people to be secure at the expense of another. Any action towards such an end only creates greater insecurity for everyone.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:45 pm 
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http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/hu ... on.html#cr

Whadda think?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:01 pm 
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I question the review given the specific monies from shooters/hunters/fishers to fund the conservation efforts in addition to the hunter removal of pests.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:40 pm 
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It is a bit of work to run down the exact numbers of what hunter's fund....something anti-hunters use to their advantage; claiming that the monies are both very small and going to any number of questionable uses...(See the GAHC thread for examples...)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Hunters and shooters have paid more than $5 billion in excise taxes since 1939.

Sources: US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS); 2001 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and Wildlife-Associated Recreation; National Shooting Sports Foundation.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:49 am 
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Grizzly Bear wrote:
GreenCarz wrote:
I've seen the blog. The substance is good and the topic there is very clear. I vehemently disagree with hunting because yeah it is more than killing those poor animals in then wild. Although in that blog the author seems to highlight that hunting is not bad at all though in my opinion it will never be good because you are stepping in a territory to make them feel uncomfortable and worst kill some of them. Though I respect their outlook still for me hunting will never be as good. :-#



Quote:
I vehemently disagree with hunting because yeah it is more than killing those poor animals in then wild. Although in that blog the author seems to highlight that hunting is not bad at all though in my opinion it will never be good because you are stepping in a territory to make them feel uncomfortable and worst kill some of them.


The idea that hunting is bad because it makes animals feel "uncomfortable" is a very weak argument. Animals almost always feel "uncomfortable" because they live in a world of survival of the fittest and predator and prey. They are constantly on the lookout for ANYTHING which could harm them. For example, a deer, as a prey animal, is constantly aware of the danger of predators. Whether the predator is a human hunter or a pack of wolves, is irrelevant, as the deer, by its nature, is constantly in this state of awareness. This isn't a state of "discomfort", it's a survival instinct. To claim that human hunters, of and by themselves, cause animals to be "uncomfortable" is false. It is even irrational anthropomorphizing to suggest that the natural instinct of being on the lookout for predators is "uncomfortable". Just because such a mental state would indeed be uncomfortable for humans in the modern world, that doesn't mean it is necessarily so for other species. For them, it is simply a fact of life. They actually know nothing else.
Before you fully entrench yourself in an anti position, here are some additional things to consider. First, hunting is a wildlife management tool that helps keep wildlife populations in check and at healthy levels. If you are concerned about lessening the suffering of animals, then you actually should be pro-hunting, because it does exactly that. Hunting removes animals from the population that might otherwise die from things like disease, predation, starvation, winter kill, etc.. All of these kinds of deaths produce far more suffering to an animal than being dispatched by a rifle or arrow. Secondly, sales of hunting, as well as fishing, licenses , is what funds most wildlife conservation. The funds from these sales go to everything to enforcement of anti-poaching laws to habitat conservation through land purchases. There is a saying that if you enjoy wildlife and wild lands, thank a sportsman. And it is indeed true. If you were to ban hunting, how would you fund conservation measures? That, I think, is a question you need to answer if you are an anti. One more thing to consider: every time a hunter sits down to meal of say, venison or wild duck, that is a meal in which he/she is not consuming meat from industrialized agriculture. Wild game is not only a healthy, natural food, it is an environmentally friendly food as well.



Excellent points Griz. You and I will be hunters whether as hunters, photographers or mere hikers but in any case we are just another animal intruding into space that other potential killers and victims inhabit. That fear and subsequent adjustment by wild animals has made seeing them in the wild all the more rewarding whether from a camera angle or through the sights of a gun or bow. In either case wild animals are always subject to such fears and they must continually adjust their reads of each moment from tranquil to highly charged danger to enhance their survival ratings. We need to become a part of the natural cycle & as the only animal that can supply science to animal populations and thus reduce the more obvious cruelty of boom & bust cycles. I think wildlife management has been demonized by folks who will never really be a part of nature.

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