EnviroLink Forum

Community • Ecology • Connection
It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:03 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:31 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:16 pm
Posts: 2453
Location: The only hole built above ground
Nose picker and dingleberry eater? LOL! In the old days that would merit a stern warning and/or banishment!

To get back on topic, not to worry, Obamaramadama is gonna create jobs. Gonna hire people to dig holes. When that's done, he's gonna hire people to fill 'em back in!

Should only cost the taxpayer a few trillion or so.

_________________
I can have oodles of charm....... when I want to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:17 pm 
Online
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
SiberD wrote:
Nose picker and dingleberry eater?


It was "noise picker" and in response to the "maroon" theme already underway in Johnny's posts ...... :mrgreen:

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:09 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2289
Location: Central Colorado
Maroon is one thing but this was reported as name calling;
LMAO @ the moron, You really are a noise picker and dingleberry eater ain’t ya ROFLMAO
with moron and dingleberry eater from the non-introduced troll being actual undisguised name calling, which gets people banned according to the rules.
Apparently he uses the 13th amendment for about everything, and forgets all the chain gangs, prison work crews, road crews, and the draft after the 13th amendment.

The point of the thread is that Americans GENERALLY WILL do the work done by illegals. Not just agricultural, but the lost construction jobs in a variety of trades, hotel/motel jobs, and restaurant jobs like in the video.
Also mentioned are the laws broken and the fines and hard time they entail. Of course, the traitor Obama has just done a "back door amnesty", but it won't hold up long.
It is true that if the letter of the law and the spirit of the US Constitution were enforced, theoretically many times our National Debt is owed, and it is a true invasion of the USA. The many effects are direct costs and wage reduction/loss of near 1/2 trillion per year, and the deaths and victimization of many thousands of Americans yearly, along with all the jobs taken. Obama and many other politicians are clearly on the side of America's enemies, against their Oaths, and in a time of war--a death penalty for high treason. That goes back to past Presidents and retired Golden Parachute politicians, SPLC, LaRaza, and other orgs. Plus, of course, those Americans who knew darn well they were hiring them, or encouraging them with editorials or other methods.
The cure to many of the USA's problems lies with having non-corrupt strong leadership like Eisenhower, and enforcement of laws and the will of the majority of people and upholding art4 sec4 of the US Constitution. The debt and deficit----cured! Overpopulation---reduced!!! Unemployment---vastly reduced!!! American culture---on the way to being saved! All from deporting illegals and collecting fines from them and their encouragers.
Getting the old American work ethic back and that old can-do spirit will take a change in leadership, and return to ways that were prevalent before the influx of 3rd world immigrants. A return of the draft and re-instituting the 1924 Immigration quota Act, along with English as the Official Language, not required before but needed now.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:56 am 
Online
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Maroon is one thing but this was reported as name calling;
LMAO @ the moron, You really are a noise picker and dingleberry eater ain’t ya ROFLMAO
with moron and dingleberry eater from the non-introduced troll being actual undisguised name calling, which gets people banned according to the rules.


They are very similar in application and if one is to be punished as such, both should receive the same punishment, IMHO. If anything the secondary use would have some basis for defense as it was a newbie, it was in reply to a similar "light-hearted jest", and there was no action taken concerning the first incidents.

Quote:
Apparently he uses the 13th amendment for about everything, and forgets all the chain gangs, prison work crews, road crews, and the draft after the 13th amendment.


I think the critical application revolves around the wording of the sentence as to whether the labor is possible. That is from memory, so it may be slightly off.

Quote:
The point of the thread is that Americans GENERALLY WILL do the work done by illegals.


Not according to the data. The migrant agricultural jobs are nearly impossible to fill according to the article in Georgia and what I have read about the farm issues in North Carolina. The food service industries, maybe, but they generally have much higher turnover due to wanting higher wages for the same job.

Quote:
Not just agricultural, but the lost construction jobs in a variety of trades, hotel/motel jobs, and restaurant jobs like in the video.


I spoke with a construction superintendent a few months ago who was working on a sewer/water extent ion project that crossed part of one of my properties. His whole crew was Hispanic except for one new hire. He said he could not get anyone to apply for the jobs previously and now there are folks like yourself claiming the Hispanics took the jobs from Americans. He said they worked hard at the job, worked well, and gave him no trouble. He asked why would he fire these workers who had stuck by him to hire folks who would leave just as soon as they could get another job? He said he would continue to hire the best workers when he could, but that those with a positive history with him would have more of a chance than an unknown .... regardless of race, age, sex, creed, or national origin.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:10 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5776
Location: USA
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Fosgate wrote:
Easy enough solved. Pay what folks are willing to take for such work. If you can't do that for whatever reason, then perhaps you don't have a business or are simply not as efficient as you need to be.


They did pay enough to have the folks willing to take the work, until the people working felt they were not welcome in the community.


That's my point. There's a price to pay for feeling unwelcome.

Quote:
Simple solution, but how do you increase the costs of production without being able to increase the prices of the product?


You don't. The goal is to reduce production costs, not increase them. Labor reduction is part of that.

Quote:
Agriculture is labor intensive and unless the consumer is willing to pay higher prices short term they will definitely be paying much higher prices long term.


Folks like you and I should set the example. Produce is worth what it's worth. Keep fooling ourselves and instances like this will just become more commomplace.

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:30 am 
Online
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
Fosgate wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Fosgate wrote:
Easy enough solved. Pay what folks are willing to take for such work. If you can't do that for whatever reason, then perhaps you don't have a business or are simply not as efficient as you need to be.


They did pay enough to have the folks willing to take the work, until the people working felt they were not welcome in the community.


That's my point. There's a price to pay for feeling unwelcome.


Ahhh, I see what you mean now.

Quote:
Quote:
Simple solution, but how do you increase the costs of production without being able to increase the prices of the product?


You don't. The goal is to reduce production costs, not increase them. Labor reduction is part of that.


But how do you then hire folks who do not want to follow the crops northward as the growing season expands and want to be compensated more for not doing so? :mrgreen:

Quote:
Quote:
Agriculture is labor intensive and unless the consumer is willing to pay higher prices short term they will definitely be paying much higher prices long term.


Folks like you and I should set the example. Produce is worth what it's worth. Keep fooling ourselves and instances like this will just become more commomplace.


Yes, and there is a reason food products are often subsidized or protected by tarriffs too. The national security issue becomes moot when you cannot feed yourself. The British had a taste of that during WWII when the supply lines from outside were being pounded by submarine wolfpacks.

The whole "buy American" concept seems to go out the window when comparison shopping begins, but not always.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:06 pm 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:56 pm
Posts: 23
SiberD wrote:
Nose picker and dingleberry eater? LOL! In the old days that would merit a stern warning and/or banishment!

To get back on topic, not to worry, Obamaramadama is gonna create jobs. Gonna hire people to dig holes. When that's done, he's gonna hire people to fill 'em back in!

Should only cost the taxpayer a few trillion or so.

Cheaper than the Bush wars... And as a rule people aren'tgoing to die digging holes or filling them back in.. Just sayin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:23 pm 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:56 pm
Posts: 23
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Maroon is one thing but this was reported as name calling;
LMAO @ the moron, You really are a noise picker and dingleberry eater ain’t ya ROFLMAO
with moron and dingleberry eater from the non-introduced troll being actual undisguised name calling, which gets people banned according to the rules.
lol So you call me a maroon and then Bruce, for having your Rhinotillexomania, pointed out in public ROFLMAO


Apparently he uses the 13th amendment for about everything, and forgets all the chain gangs, prison work crews, road crews, and the draft after the 13th amendment.

Apparently you forget that chain gangs, prison work crews, road crews came to an end when the 13th amendment was enforced... LOL and the draft has never been successfully challenged in court.
In Selective Draft Law Cases, 245 U.S. 366 (1918), the Supreme Court said:

We are unable to conceive upon what theory the exaction by government from the citizen of the performance of his supreme and noble duty of contributing to the defense of the rights and honor of the nation, as the result of a war declared by the great representative body of the people, can be said to be the imposition of involuntary servitude in violation of the prohibitions of the Thirteenth Amendment, we are constrained to the conclusion that the contention to that effect is refuted by its mere statement.

In other words, the draft just simply ain't "involuntary servitude" within the meaning of the Thirteenth Amendment.

The draft doesn't even require a formal declaration of war by "the great representative body of the people." During the Vietnam War, which was never an actual declared war, the Court upheld a conviction for burning a draft card and declared that the power to classify and conscript manpower for military service was "beyond question.'' United States v. O'Brien, 391 U.S. 367, 377 (1968).

See also US v. Holmes, 387 F.2d 781, 784 (7th Cir. 1968).


http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/arc ... 52150.html



And the proven point here is that most Americans just ain't interested in doing the hot and dirty menial labor that the immigrant labor force is willing to do. And ya just can't make em do it LOL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:26 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:16 pm
Posts: 2453
Location: The only hole built above ground
Quote:
I spoke with a construction superintendent a few months ago who was working on a sewer/water extent ion project that crossed part of one of my properties. His whole crew was Hispanic except for one new hire.


Wow, really?? That's not been my experience here. Most, if not all, projects like that are public bid jobs that require paying the workers at prevailing wage, which around here are good wages. You don't see too many Hispanics working on those jobs.

_________________
I can have oodles of charm....... when I want to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:35 pm 
Online
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
SiberD wrote:
Quote:
I spoke with a construction superintendent a few months ago who was working on a sewer/water extent ion project that crossed part of one of my properties. His whole crew was Hispanic except for one new hire.


Wow, really?? That's not been my experience here. Most, if not all, projects like that are public bid jobs that require paying the workers at prevailing wage, which around here are good wages. You don't see too many Hispanics working on those jobs.


The wages seemed to be good given the workers were all driving fairly new model pickups to work, but I did not ask directly about that aspect. They were all capable on the heavy equipment except for the new guy, who was a little slower, but clearly catching on. Other local projects around seem to have a mixture of Hispanics at least, with the exception of some of the communication companies where the crew is only three or four and some of those crews are all non-Hispanics.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:00 pm 
Online
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
http://sogpubs.unc.edu/electronicversions/pg/hispan.htm

What Kinds of Jobs Are the Hispanic Newcomers Getting? Most of what is known about Hispanic employment patterns in North Carolina (outside of agricultural work) is based on studies of specific industries (for example, poultry and hog processing) or of local communities that have experienced a significant influx of Hispanics in recent years (for example, Siler City in Chatham County and Charlotte in Mecklenburg County).[22] To date, no systematic efforts have been undertaken to assess the overall employment impact of Hispanic migration to North Carolina.

To address this issue, we created an employment profile of the Hispanic population of North Carolina using 1990 PUMS occupational data. Although these data are somewhat dated, they are the best and most reliable source of information on the statewide employment patterns of North Carolina’s Hispanic population. For our purposes, we grouped occupations into the following categories, as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau:[23]

Primary activities, including agriculture, forestry, and fisheries
Transformative activities, including manufacturing and construction
Distributive services, including transportation, communication, and wholesale and retail trade
Producer services, including finance, insurance, real estate, and business services
Personal services, including entertainment, repairs, and eating and drinking
Social services, including health care, education, and government
Active military service, including active status in a branch of the U.S. military
We broke down our data according to Hispanic settlement patterns: those who resided in the two military communities and those who resided in the I-85 corridor communities. For comparison we also examined the statewide distribution of both total Hispanic employment and total employment.

Several patterns are apparent in these data. First, contrary to popular stereotypes, Hispanic workers were widely dispersed in the North Carolina economy in 1990. The statewide distribution indicates that North Carolina Hispanics were overrepresented in primary activities—as Hispanics are in communities outside North Carolina that have a substantial Hispanic presence. But unlike Hispanic workers in many other such communities, they also are overrepresented in social services and military service, occupations that pay higher wages. In addition, although Hispanics are underrepresented by statewide standards, they are substantially represented in transformative activities, especially construction.

The occupational distributions in the two types of communities that served as magnets for Hispanic in-migration between 1985 and 1990—military settings and the I-85 corridor communities—show radically different patterns. In the military settings, Hispanics are greatly overrepresented in military service occupations and underrepresented in all other occupational categories. In the I-85 corridor communities, Hispanics are overrepresented in the other occupational categories, compared with the pattern in military settings. Thus the typical image of a migrant farm worker or a gardener no longer applies to North Carolina’s Hispanic newcomers. They are distributed throughout the state’s economy, in both high- and low-wage occupations.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:14 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5776
Location: USA
Wayne Stollings wrote:
But how do you then hire folks who do not want to follow the crops northward as the growing season expands and want to be compensated more for not doing so? :mrgreen:


Beats the hell out of me, I'm not a farmer. :razz: The bottom line is that one will never hire another when the "price isn't right". The labor pool is always there. It's a matter of paying what it's worth when it's needed. Supply falls, prices rise. It's to be expected and folks--producers, middlemen, and consumers--should be prepared for it.

Quote:
The whole "buy American" concept seems to go out the window when comparison shopping begins, but not always.


I'm more one that sticks to the "buy quality" concept. Coincidentally for me, that most often equates to "buy locally" and thus, American.

Slowly but surely, American institutions are getting more effective at consistently producing and providing quality goods and services. Highly labor intensive entities will fall at the end of the pack because, as a general rule, human labor is more variable than automation in terms of output and of course what we're talking about here, availability.

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:46 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:16 pm
Posts: 2453
Location: The only hole built above ground
Quote:
The wages seemed to be good given the workers were all driving fairly new model pickups to work, but I did not ask directly about that aspect. They were all capable on the heavy equipment except for the new guy, who was a little slower, but clearly catching on. Other local projects around seem to have a mixture of Hispanics at least, with the exception of some of the communication companies where the crew is only three or four and some of those crews are all non-Hispanics.



Hmmm, things must be really different where you're at. These prevailing wages are set by the Bacon Davis Act and usually reflect the local union wages for each job classification that will be employed by the public project. Not only that, almost ALL of these projects end up having contractors who's employees belong to unions. Haven't seen too many Hispanics who belong to the unions around these parts.

I know one thing, I'd rather have a project where the employees where experienced in their trades whether it be heavy equipment operators, welders, pipe fitters, or just plain laborers, then a project with employees who were a little slower, but clearly catching on :lol:

What do you think Pops, er, I mean old crow.

_________________
I can have oodles of charm....... when I want to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:13 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2289
Location: Central Colorado
Report on work Americans WILL do.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/acti ... ll-do.html?

=D> =D> =D> =; [-X

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:44 am 
Online
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
SiberD wrote:
Quote:
The wages seemed to be good given the workers were all driving fairly new model pickups to work, but I did not ask directly about that aspect. They were all capable on the heavy equipment except for the new guy, who was a little slower, but clearly catching on. Other local projects around seem to have a mixture of Hispanics at least, with the exception of some of the communication companies where the crew is only three or four and some of those crews are all non-Hispanics.



Hmmm, things must be really different where you're at.


It could be due to the fact this is a right to work state and not strongly unionized.


Quote:
These prevailing wages are set by the Bacon Davis Act and usually reflect the local union wages for each job classification that will be employed by the public project.


Actually, I believe the act does not specify union but just prevailing wages, which these projects appear to meet.

Quote:
Not only that, almost ALL of these projects end up having contractors who's employees belong to unions.


Again, there are not a lot of unionization in this state compared to some others, ~3.2% of the workers.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.t05.htm

Quote:
I know one thing, I'd rather have a project where the employees where experienced in their trades whether it be heavy equipment operators, welders, pipe fitters, or just plain laborers, then a project with employees who were a little slower, but clearly catching on :lol:


If you had read what I wrote, they were experienced with the exception of the new hire, who was less experienced. I always am amused that experience seems to have to appear from a vacuum in some cases since there is no provision for gaining it without already having it.

I know the last time I operated a backhoe, it took me several minutes to get the controls identified again and several more before I got a smooth operation of the hoe. I was just clearing brush and not digging anything important, but it took some getting back into practice.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Wayne Stollings and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group