EnviroLink Forum

Do you really think so? Could it be that they were simply fishing and the guy called "jesus" showed up and gave some practical advice? The same kind of practical advice given to the masses: "treat thy neighbor as thyself" ......? Hmmm, I don't think Jesus even preached himself let alone instructed others where or what to preach. If he truly was an historical figure, my bet is that he was a clear headed sort of guy, probably quite down to earth, and pragmatic in his approach. So he said things like .... "hey guys, i see them jumping 20 feet to your left" .... and "Let those of you who have not 'sinned' cast the first stone", and "treat thy neighbour ..." etc. Do we need to deify him while we could all be saying and doing the same? He was a dude like any of us are, regardless of the plumbing that makes us either male or female.

I think that Jesus was so clear-headed that he did not actually have any beliefs at all ..... not even in an anthropomorphic "god" ..... the kind of "god' belief that circulates among the religions of yore as well as present day. Here's a question: Did God create man or did man create God?



Yes, regret is definitely something you reflect on and the atonement is in the reflection itself. I can think of several .... well, numerous instances of regret. Heck, I even regret some things I've posted on this forum! But i don't know that I've regreted with a positive reaction, necessarily. If I regret something I've said or done, why should i insist on putting a positive spin on it? If i put a positive spin on it, it would no longer be regret. Regret, by its very definition, is negative in nature. How else could it be instructive? i regret it for a reason. That reason holds.



Is it true that babies are born screaming and unhappy? I don't think so. The old medical model had them turned upside down and slapped in the mistaken belief that doing so would make the newborns take their first breath. What an introduction! Those babies definitely took their first breath, but in such pain and shock. We've since learned, mostly by studying other cultures, that such extreme measures were never necessary. We had Leboyer in the 70's and since then, many forward thinking strategies ..... Nowadays babies are born more peacefully for both the mothers and for the babies themselves. I'm sorry that any baby came ino the world in such a way. You probably were and maybe i was too. Nowadays, many women have their babies at home and if not, the hospitals have been informed and have birthing rooms with showers and midwives, etc. Times have changed Mothy. The medical model is one of control ... they even used to put a woman's legs in stirrups .... but that was long ago.

Our ancestors experienced all the suffering that we do now: fear, jealousy, anger, sadness. It's not different now because we aren't. But what do we know of our ancestors except what is wriiten as history? We don't actually know their individual stories .... we don't know the stories of children or women or individual men. What we know is the "news" of battles waged and some prominent "events". Now we have technology but we have no technology for the basics of human experience. We are born happy and it is our natural state. Observe a dog that is fed and feels connection .... see that dog play and express excitement over every day delights such as sticks and romps on the beach or forest or wherever there is space to express. If that dog has not been neglected or trained to fear ..... it is simply born happy, and so are we. Happiness is our natural state.



Mothy, you have a conscience and therefore you suffer. Who doesn't? We are living in a very complex society of our own making. Your conscience is not different from consciousness itself. It's not personal and never has been. It's a topsy-turvy world. To feel weird within it is normal. You are the Fool and it is King Lear, the holder of authority and so called sanity who is really duped! But none of us are duped because we are all in this together.

If we believe ourselves to be separate, then we are as King Lear. So who needs to take the anti-depresants? The "Fool" or King Lear?



You .... and We .... must suffer this human experience .... or celebrate it. You envy those who have no capacity for empathy because they do not suffer as you do, but it is your sufffering that brings life forward. You're not nuts ..... and you could probably toss your drugs.



And yet if we can act and be as we are, there is no need of code, politically correct or otherwise.



It's unavoidable to walk down a sidewalk without also killing an ant or some other insect, and yet no need to do it gratuituously. And then there is the car, and train, and aeroplane. And then we also do it intentinally as in the case of bedbugs.

And so it is Mothy. What more attention do you need? The Fool had no need of attention .... he was just a fool. He couldn't help his wisdom.

Well that was quite the reply animal friendly. Thank you for your time and effort.

I do sometimes think whether Jesus was some kind of cool hippy.

I don't really think some guy can turn up and give advice to some experienced fisherman so it leads me to believe that he was either part of the divine order or telling them the best place to preach or both.

Happiness maybe a natural state so could be said for fear, anger, sadness, jealousy etc. Whatever emotion a person is feeling is natural to them at that point of time.

Ahhh, .., where there isn't much effort, time is not much of a consideration.



I'm not sure what a "hippy" is beyond some kind of label. I guess there are different ideas of what a "hippy" is, what a 'hippy" wears, and what a "hippy" says and does. Does a "hippy" wear certain kinds of clothing and say some kind of "hippy" thing, and eat some kind of "hippy" food? I guess there is a kind of "hippy" stereotype just as there is a certain "redneck" stereotype, but neither image could possibly describe the individual. Maybe Jesus, or Mohammed, or Buddha, was a mixture of stereotypes. Maybe they were a mixture of "hippy", "businessman", "politician", "farmer", "parent", etc., etc. Maybe Jesus knew something of fishing. He apparently knew something of carpentry, so maybe he knew other things too.

We don't know who Jesus was for sure and we never will. That is one point, and only one. We can surmise and predict and hypothesize for ever and ever! But what is the point? What is the point of having a belief in Jesus or Mohammed or Buddha and what they said or supposedly said? Why do we, en masse, subscribe to books laid down long ago when life is happening NOW? We have erected churches and mosques and synagogue and shrines; we have created all kinds of ideologies and called them "religions" based on dead people even though life is happening NOW.

Why interpret what Jesus said and did? Why bother? He was alive then, and we are alive now. I think he said as much. And then we turned his most basic and practical teachings into RELIGION, .... and we fight amongst ourselves about which religion is/was true .... but there was never meant to be any religon at all. Jesus didn't invent "Christianity" just as Buddha never invented "Buddhism". Mohammed didn't invent "Islam". People invented religion in order to feel some sense of safety and security. There seems to be a need for belonging which is why we feel a need to identify with a country or tribe. We seek security in numbers and in belonging, and in doing so, we create insecurity. Is it possible to see the irony of this? From our insistence of our demand to belong ..... to some group .... we create the very insecurity we wish to avoid.



We are Jesus. We are IT. See above. We are life itself. There is no need for belief in this prophet or that, in this religion or that. Why do we , .... do YOU MOTHY, have beliefs in Jesus or anyone else? Why have any beliefs at all? I pose this as a question but I hope you will not repond. Please don't. Just think about it. We are quick to respond (it is our conditioning to think we need to provide answers), and yet the answer is already contained within the question .... if you dare to ask the question in the first place.



Sort of. It's just that we take fear, anger, jealousy, etc., as a given while we have forgotten our natural state ..... We seem to accept all of these emotions as normal and what should be expected, yet most of them are provoked by fear and thought. It could be said that they are a product of fear, which is not our natural state. What would we be if fearless? Hmmm, .... maybe fearless is our natural state? What is there to be afarid of anyway? The question could open a new thread. What and why do we fear? It seems we take fear for granted, while our naural state of fearlesness and even liberty from such states is questioned.

And we have religion and nationalism and other states of "belonging", other groups of separation and segragation that make us feel as if we "belong" and which give us a false sense of identification ... call it "Christianity" or "Nationalism", ... or whatever group you wish to belong to and of which I am not a member, or a group I identify with and you are not a member. Can you see through it?

Having seen through it, it ceases to exist. And when it does your passport is merely a formality. And having seen through it, religion is seen for what it is.

Hell, if it's that easy, I can think of quite a few things I can do without.

_________________
TANG SOO!

We entered this world alone and leave it alone.
We may have a mother at birth and family at departure but we leave/enter these extremes on our own.
Although, birth brings a warm feeling to those witnesses and death a cold one, I believe these feelings are misplaced to the point of antithetical actuality. All those smiling adults looking at the baby thinking' We know what you are in for' Birth for all of us is the beginning of a life of deceit, pain, suffering, anguish, fear , worry and compassion for the most vulnerable of lifes fellow travellers and death will be a freedom from this confused and pain ridden mortal coil for trillians of creatures. Personally I would have preferred it no other way, I have concentrated on the darker side of life because that is what needs attention and healing

Ever seen those beautiful models? Many have been spoonfed by their parents then spoonfed by the media. Many are shadows. They see this as paradise because the media and 'fans' feed their ego and pockets, those with a more balanced view see this reality with probably a more healthy perception whilst those that concentrate on the negative aspects of reality are witnessing and living hell.


Leave the womb warm and wet
Enter the tomb cold and dead.

Fear is part of survival and survival is a natural instinct.

We are born with a guiltless, innocent mind and die with a blemished one with more untruths than truths no matter how clever one thinks they are.

Families are for people and gangs are for those with no family. Gangs tags flags wags bags rags nags fags gags hags jags lags mags sags. All labels that condition us. Afflatus over.

I don't believe in many things in this supernatural phenomenon (lets face it infinite cannot exist) but I do believe in the power of the Paraclete.

Mothy is quite the toy. Just attach him to a piece of string spin him around for a bit and he gets quite disorientated.

Too much emphasis was put on Einstein. He only had an iq of 172 and felt guilty eating meat yet never cleared his conscience.

Is instinct faster than the speed of light?

The closer you are to a person (physically) the nearer to their present you are.

Mothy on a g-string.