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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:36 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
mothy wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
http://www.allgreatquotes.com/native_american_proverbs4.shtml

When the white man discovered this country Indians were running it. No taxes, no debt, women did all the work. White man thought he could improve on a system like this.
Origin: Cherokee


Sorry had to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDd-GXkMrJs
indigenous creeds were sunk by the external warrior.



This video contains content from SME and UMG. It is not available in your country.
Sorry about that.

try this one Wayne.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHLdg_VNww Quite apt I feel.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:02 am 
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knightofalbion wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
Gentlemen, the thread seems to be drifting away from the topic!

As the gentle-hearted Mothy pointed out, all birds should be free to soar through the sky and feel the sun and wind on their face, not imprisoned in cages; in this instance, cages so small, they can't even stretch their wings.


Neither turkey nor chickens soar either in relation to domestic or wild breeds. They are naturally the target for predators who do not kill in anything approaching a humane manner.

Quote:
Hundreds of millions of chickens around the world live miserable lives in these inhumane, squalid conditions.


As do humans .... it is a part of life it seems.

Quote:
To service the trade an endless supply of new chicks are reared. Any unfortunate enough to have been born male get thrown live into a mincing machine...


Unlike those cultures who eliminate female infants? Animals may not choose only males or females, but they clearly do consume their young for various reasons.

Quote:
So you see there IS cruelty involved. Great cruelty.


Unlike nature which is fraught with cruelty? Humans define what is and is not "cruel" to each individual in varied and subjective ways.


It's called evolution, Wayne. In a truly civilized, enlightened society we should be moving away from all acts of bloodshed, brutality and enslavement, be it against man or beast.



I agree with you 100%. However when I became vegan 24 years ago food choice was very restricted as you can imagine. When Linda Mccartney brought her vegan pies out it was like a breath of fresh air. Sausage rolls, sausages, I made friends with my taste buds again. However recently the major stores are bringing in their own brand of veggie stuff and for some reason or another they are all including milk. It seems my choice is being reverted back 24 years ago when associated with the major stores. Of course these are guilty of selling Halal meat without telling the customer.


If the customer sees a bargain they will buy it even at the expense of not really wanting it.

Mothy.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:28 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
mothy wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
http://www.allgreatquotes.com/native_american_proverbs4.shtml

When the white man discovered this country Indians were running it. No taxes, no debt, women did all the work. White man thought he could improve on a system like this.
Origin: Cherokee


Sorry had to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDd-GXkMrJs
indigenous creeds were sunk by the external warrior.



This video contains content from SME and UMG. It is not available in your country.
Sorry about that.



mothy wrote:
try this one Wayne.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHLdg_VNww Quite apt I feel.


The uploader has not made this video available in your country.
Sorry about that.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:33 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
Gentlemen, the thread seems to be drifting away from the topic!

As the gentle-hearted Mothy pointed out, all birds should be free to soar through the sky and feel the sun and wind on their face, not imprisoned in cages; in this instance, cages so small, they can't even stretch their wings.


Neither turkey nor chickens soar either in relation to domestic or wild breeds. They are naturally the target for predators who do not kill in anything approaching a humane manner.

Quote:
Hundreds of millions of chickens around the world live miserable lives in these inhumane, squalid conditions.


As do humans .... it is a part of life it seems.

Quote:
To service the trade an endless supply of new chicks are reared. Any unfortunate enough to have been born male get thrown live into a mincing machine...


Unlike those cultures who eliminate female infants? Animals may not choose only males or females, but they clearly do consume their young for various reasons.

Quote:
So you see there IS cruelty involved. Great cruelty.


Unlike nature which is fraught with cruelty? Humans define what is and is not "cruel" to each individual in varied and subjective ways.


knightofalbion wrote:
It's called evolution, Wayne. In a truly civilized, enlightened society we should be moving away from all acts of bloodshed, brutality and enslavement, be it against man or beast.


It is very close to the "True Scotsman Fallacy" actually. Your opinion of what a truly civilized and enlightened society should be is fine for you, but those terms are defined just as varied and subjectively as cruelty.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:26 am 
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Forgive my lack of etiquette. It was Iron Maiden singing run to the hills, about the North American Indians being oppressed by the white man.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:30 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
Gentlemen, the thread seems to be drifting away from the topic!

As the gentle-hearted Mothy pointed out, all birds should be free to soar through the sky and feel the sun and wind on their face, not imprisoned in cages; in this instance, cages so small, they can't even stretch their wings.


Neither turkey nor chickens soar either in relation to domestic or wild breeds. They are naturally the target for predators who do not kill in anything approaching a humane manner.

Quote:
Hundreds of millions of chickens around the world live miserable lives in these inhumane, squalid conditions.


As do humans .... it is a part of life it seems.

Quote:
To service the trade an endless supply of new chicks are reared. Any unfortunate enough to have been born male get thrown live into a mincing machine...


Unlike those cultures who eliminate female infants? Animals may not choose only males or females, but they clearly do consume their young for various reasons.

Quote:
So you see there IS cruelty involved. Great cruelty.


Unlike nature which is fraught with cruelty? Humans define what is and is not "cruel" to each individual in varied and subjective ways.


knightofalbion wrote:
It's called evolution, Wayne. In a truly civilized, enlightened society we should be moving away from all acts of bloodshed, brutality and enslavement, be it against man or beast.


It is very close to the "True Scotsman Fallacy" actually. Your opinion of what a truly civilized and enlightened society should be is fine for you, but those terms are defined just as varied and subjectively as cruelty.



Those with a heavy conscience are a prisoner to that very phenomenon yet the psychopath has total freedom.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:49 am 
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mothy wrote:

Those with a heavy conscience are a prisoner to that very phenomenon yet the psychopath has total freedom.


Until said psychopath is made a prisoner by the rest of society for the protection of all involved .....

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
mothy wrote:

Those with a heavy conscience are a prisoner to that very phenomenon yet the psychopath has total freedom.


Until said psychopath is made a prisoner by the rest of society for the protection of all involved .....



http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~pzapf/classes ... 0Notes.htm

The average psychopath which what I was referring to will never be incarcerated, but to live their lives with total freedom void of other people feelings and void of guilt. Without conscience but clever enough to avoid jail they get by with their superficial charm.


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