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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:41 pm 
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The Land of the Free punishes or imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation. This collection of testimonials from criminal offenders, family members, and experts on America’s criminal justice system puts a human face on the millions of Americans subjugated by the US Government's 40 year, one trillion dollar social catastrophe: The War on Drugs; a failed policy underscored by fear, politics, racial prejudice and intolerance in a public atmosphere of "out of sight, out of mind."

http://www.opendemocracy.net/TENP-AnthonyPapa


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:04 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
The Land of the Free punishes or imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation. This collection of testimonials from criminal offenders, family members, and experts on America’s criminal justice system puts a human face on the millions of Americans subjugated by the US Government's 40 year, one trillion dollar social catastrophe: The War on Drugs; a failed policy underscored by fear, politics, racial prejudice and intolerance in a public atmosphere of "out of sight, out of mind."

http://www.opendemocracy.net/TENP-AnthonyPapa


The US has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prisoners.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:11 am 
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Crooks go where the money is, A.F. We have so many crooks because we have so much to steal.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:15 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
The Land of the Free punishes or imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation. This collection of testimonials from criminal offenders, family members, and experts on America’s criminal justice system puts a human face on the millions of Americans subjugated by the US Government's 40 year, one trillion dollar social catastrophe: The War on Drugs; a failed policy underscored by fear, politics, racial prejudice and intolerance in a public atmosphere of "out of sight, out of mind."

http://www.opendemocracy.net/TENP-AnthonyPapa


The US has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prisoners.


Yes, and the majority appear to be for violent crimes .....

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old ... high.shtml



Drug war prisoners make up only about one-fourth of an all-time high 2,268,000 people behind bars in the US, up 1.9% from 2003. But while the imprisonment juggernaut continues to roll along, there are faint signs that its growth is slowing. Last year's 1.9% increase in prison and jail population was lower than the year before (2.0%) and lower than the 3.2% average annual growth rate for the past decade.

Of the nearly 2.2 million people behind bars last year, 50.5% were serving time for violent crime. That means that more than 1.1 million people were imprisoned for nonviolent offenses, mainly property and drug crimes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:24 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
The US has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prisoners.


Of course. The US has one of the most effective criminal justice systems in the world. What'd you expect?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:42 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
The Land of the Free punishes or imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation. This collection of testimonials from criminal offenders, family members, and experts on America’s criminal justice system puts a human face on the millions of Americans subjugated by the US Government's 40 year, one trillion dollar social catastrophe: The War on Drugs; a failed policy underscored by fear, politics, racial prejudice and intolerance in a public atmosphere of "out of sight, out of mind."

http://www.opendemocracy.net/TENP-AnthonyPapa


The US has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prisoners.


Yes, and the majority appear to be for violent crimes .....

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old ... high.shtml



Drug war prisoners make up only about one-fourth of an all-time high 2,268,000 people behind bars in the US, up 1.9% from 2003. But while the imprisonment juggernaut continues to roll along, there are faint signs that its growth is slowing. Last year's 1.9% increase in prison and jail population was lower than the year before (2.0%) and lower than the 3.2% average annual growth rate for the past decade.

Of the nearly 2.2 million people behind bars last year, 50.5% were serving time for violent crime. That means that more than 1.1 million people were imprisoned for nonviolent offenses, mainly property and drug crimes.


I just noticed the math failure in the link I used. If there are NEARLY 2.2 million people in jail and 50.5% are violent offenders there cannot be MORE than 1.1 million non-violent offenders.

2.2 million X 50.5% = 1.111 million violent offenders
2.2 million - 1.111 = 1.089 million non-violent offenders

thus, since there are less than 2.2 million in jail there is less than 1.089 million non-violent offenders not more than 1.1 million. There are more than 1.1 million violent offenders, however.

In any case, ~25% being drug criminals would be ~ 0.55 million prisoners.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:53 am 
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"The Land of the Free punishes or imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation. This collection of testimonials from criminal offenders, family members, and experts on America’s criminal justice system puts a human face on the millions of Americans subjugated by the US Government's 40 year, one trillion dollar social catastrophe: The War on Drugs; a failed policy underscored by fear, politics, racial prejudice and intolerance in a public atmosphere of "out of sight, out of mind."

http://www.opendemocracy.net/TENP-AnthonyPapa[/quote]

The US has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prisoners.[/quote]

Quote:
Yes, and the majority appear to be for violent crimes .....

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old ... high.shtml


The percentage of the total population in the US who are incarcerated is staggering compared to other nations. This should bring up some questions I would think. The US has 5% of the world's population and a whopping 25% of the world's prisoners?


Quote:
Drug war prisoners make up only about one-fourth of an all-time high 2,268,000 people behind bars in the US, up 1.9% from 2003. But while the imprisonment juggernaut continues to roll along, there are faint signs that its growth is slowing. Last year's 1.9% increase in prison and jail population was lower than the year before (2.0%) and lower than the 3.2% average annual growth rate for the past decade.


Drug war prisoners make up ONLY (ONLY?) one-fourth of 2,268,000 ... an all time high ... ONLY? Is that all?

Quote:
Of the nearly 2.2 million people behind bars last year, 50.5% were serving time for violent crime. That means that more than 1.1 million people were imprisoned for nonviolent offenses, mainly property and drug crimes.

I just noticed the math failure in the link I used. If there are NEARLY 2.2 million people in jail and 50.5% are violent offenders there cannot be MORE than 1.1 million non-violent offenders.

2.2 million X 50.5% = 1.111 million violent offenders
2.2 million - 1.111 = 1.089 million non-violent offenders

thus, since there are less than 2.2 million in jail


There are 2,268,000 people in jail ..... 68,000 more than 2.2. How do you get LESS?

there is less than 1.089 million non-violent offenders not more than 1.1 million. There are more than 1.1 million violent offenders, however.

While you tweak the numbers, there are a staggering number of US citizens imprisoned ... period. And one fourth of them are a result of the war on drugs ..... a percentage of that are people caught smoking a joint, while "the imprisonment juggernaut continues to roll along," with ... "faint signs that its growth is slowing."

Quote:
In any case, ~25% being drug criminals would be ~ 0.55 million prisoners.


And that is an exile nation ....while civil liberties continue to be eroded in the once land of the free. Since 1970, when the war on drugs began, the number of "felons" captured has increased four-fold.

It seems to me you are defending this decades old movement. Why?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:03 am 
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Even as violent and property crime rates have declined, drug arrests have continued to climb, reaching more than 1.7 million last year. The consequences of those arrests show up in the ever-increasing drug war prisoner numbers.

With an incarceration rate of 724 per 100,000 inhabitants, the United States is the unchallenged world leader in both raw numbers and imprisonment per capita. With a global prison population estimated at nine million, the US accounts for about one-quarter of all prisoners on the planet.

It is extremely important to know what's going on ..... inspite of the demands of work, raising children, and the endless distraction of various entertainments, etc .... We need to take the time to educate ourselves because it's about to get a lot worse.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:15 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Quote:
Yes, and the majority appear to be for violent crimes .....

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old ... high.shtml


The percentage of the total population in the US who are incarcerated is staggering compared to other nations. This should bring up some questions I would think. The US has 5% of the world's population and a whopping 25% of the world's prisoners?


It shows that either the US fosters a mentality that breaks the laws, the US system is more efficient at catching and punishing criminals, or some combination of the two. In any case it is not because of the war on drugs since the vast majority of the criminals are in jail for other reasons.


Quote:
Quote:
Drug war prisoners make up only about one-fourth of an all-time high 2,268,000 people behind bars in the US, up 1.9% from 2003. But while the imprisonment juggernaut continues to roll along, there are faint signs that its growth is slowing. Last year's 1.9% increase in prison and jail population was lower than the year before (2.0%) and lower than the 3.2% average annual growth rate for the past decade.


Drug war prisoners make up ONLY (ONLY?) one-fourth of 2,268,000 ... an all time high ... ONLY? Is that all?


Yes, and that does not support your implication that drugs are the reason for so many prisoners in the jails. ONLY 25% are in jail for property crimes and ONLY 50% are in jail for violent crimes.

Quote:
Quote:
Of the nearly 2.2 million people behind bars last year, 50.5% were serving time for violent crime. That means that more than 1.1 million people were imprisoned for nonviolent offenses, mainly property and drug crimes.

I just noticed the math failure in the link I used. If there are NEARLY 2.2 million people in jail and 50.5% are violent offenders there cannot be MORE than 1.1 million non-violent offenders.

2.2 million X 50.5% = 1.111 million violent offenders
2.2 million - 1.111 = 1.089 million non-violent offenders

thus, since there are less than 2.2 million in jail


There are 2,268,000 people in jail ..... 68,000 more than 2.2. How do you get LESS?


That was the figure in the link is how. "Nearly" is a "less than" indicator.

Of the nearly 2.2 million people behind bars last year, 50.5% were serving time for violent crime. That means that more than 1.1 million people were imprisoned for nonviolent offenses, mainly property and drug crimes.

Quote:
Quote:
there is less than 1.089 million non-violent offenders not more than 1.1 million. There are more than 1.1 million violent offenders, however.


While you tweak the numbers, there are a staggering number of US citizens imprisoned ... period. And one fourth of them are a result of the war on drugs ..... a percentage of that are people caught smoking a joint, while "the imprisonment juggernaut continues to roll along," with ... "faint signs that its growth is slowing."


Maybe and maybe not. DUI/DWI would be defined as drug charges under these limited categories or not?

http://www.yourlegalguide.com/jail-time ... ernatives/

Misdemeanor DUI Crimes. Misdemeanors are less serious crimes — the maximum jail sentence is usually one year. DWI/DUI crimes that do not involve injury or other aggravating factors are ordinarily treated as misdemeanors. Little (e.g., 48 hours) if any jail time is ordered for a DUI first offense. However, for repeat DUI offenses and DUI crimes with enhanced penalties, a defendant is likely to receive a sentence that includes jail time.

Felony DUI Crimes. The most serious crimes are felonies. Multiple DUIs (fourth offense, possibly less when occurring within a short period of time), DUI crimes involving serious injury or property damage and DUI crimes with other aggravating factors are typically classified as felonies. A person convicted of a felony should expect a jail sentence of one year or more, or even life in prison for the most serious violent crimes.


Quote:
Quote:
In any case, ~25% being drug criminals would be ~ 0.55 million prisoners.


And that is an exile nation ....while civil liberties continue to be eroded in the once land of the free.


What exactly are the civil liberties that allow one to break the law?

Quote:
Since 1970, when the war on drugs began, the number of "felons" captured has increased four-fold.


Increasing percentages are misleading at best. Starting out with a low number would show a larger increase percentage wise than it really is. If the number of felons were all drug related there would not be more violent and property crime prisoners than drug prisoners now. The emotional impact belies the factual situation.

Quote:
It seems to me you are defending this decades old movement. Why?



No, I am pointing out the errors in your position and supporting evidence. Such errors do nothing to add credibility to your position. The highly addictive drugs cannot be uncontrolled for the good of society. Marijuana and alcohol are similar in my opinion and should be treated similarly under the law. If that means society believes both should be illegal I have no problem with that. If both are to be legal I would expect tighter controls than we have on alcohol at the present time.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:22 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Crooks go where the money is, A.F. We have so many crooks because we have so much to steal.


Yes, that's true Iowa and it's why wealthy people erect fences and walls. But what protects us from the major financial institutions and/or the government itself? There is corruption happening in the very fabric ....

As for crooks and prisoners, .... many felons behind bars have experienced very unfortunate (?) circumstances. I don' think I can even begin to imagine.The trouble is that we cannot separate out one social or political or environmental or economic problem from, well, any other problem.
One problem creates another. We do not exist in isolation. We are part of an entire system.
.... and our prison system is a partial reflection of who we are.

Did you see that interview with Chris Hedges on C Span?
If not, I'll add his link. It is very long though, so takes some committment .... But he sets it straight.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:32 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Iowanic wrote:
Crooks go where the money is, A.F. We have so many crooks because we have so much to steal.


Yes, that's true Iowa and it's why wealthy people erect fences and walls. But what protects us from the major financial institutions and/or the government itself? There is corruption happening in the very fabric ....

As for crooks and prisoners, .... many felons behind bars have experienced very unfortunate (?) circumstances. I don' think I can even begin to imagine.The trouble is that we cannot separate out one social or political or environmental or economic problem from, well, any other problem.
One problem creates another. We do not exist in isolation. We are part of an entire system.
.... and our prison system is a partial reflection of who we are.

Did you see that interview with Chris Hedges on C Span?
If not, I'll add his link. It is very long though, so takes some committment .... But he sets it straight.


No link.

The inter-connection between problems is always going to be a factor, which is one of the reasons for the opposition to drug use. Use leads to abuse, abuse leads to lowered income, lowered income leads to crime, and the goal is to prevent crime.

Of course the inter-connection seems to fall apart when the posiiton of drug crime and social programs are discussed for the various candidates. The one single talking point that sounds good should be overshadowed by the impacts of the loss of so many supporting social programs which will set the stage fot the same people to become criminals to support their drug use.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
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