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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:10 am 
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mothy wrote:
Arn't you over intellectualising the concept of empathy when you should be using emotivivity as a basis for your arguement?


No, just not assigning qualities to animals just because I feel I would have them if I were one of their species. The evidence for existence or lack thereof of emotions would be an intellectual undertaking.

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:13 am 
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mothy wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
mothy wrote:
Tis not the question of higher but one of deeper.



More advanced communication then ....



The horse whisperer. Deep into the mind and look through the forgotten window..


The horse whisperer would exhibit the qualities of empathy in order to do what a "whisperer" does.

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:12 pm 
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I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... rieve.html

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:59 pm 
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knightofalbion wrote:
I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...


Seriously? I compel you to offer evidence supporting just that.

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:05 pm 
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knightofalbion wrote:
I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... rieve.html


Could be fear or just being curious. When one of our cats crawled under the bed to die, the other cat and the dogs all were freaked out when I shoved the dead cat into the big black trash bag and carried it into the garage. They do not stay around me when I have a big black trash bag out even now.

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Gee, Wayne. Whenever I carry bodies out, Ki-Ki doesn't even seem to notice anymore. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:12 pm 
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knightofalbion wrote:
I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... rieve.html



Me too Knight

"....we were immediately struck during the video by the phenomena we observed," Anderson said, "because we know chimpanzees are capable of a wide range of emotions very much akin to human emotions."

Craig Stanford, co-director of the University of Southern California Jane Goodall Research Center, called the studies’ findings interesting, but said that although humans and chimpanzees share similar emotions to some degree -- fear, anger, empathy -- ...."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleash ... umans.html

And then, "The researchers, reporting in the April 27 issue of the scientific journal Current Biology, say their observation adds to the growing body of evidence suggesting that chimps have a rich emotional life."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126278183


But some of us already knew that, right Knight? Right!


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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:22 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Craig Stanford, co-director of the University of Southern California Jane Goodall Research Center, called the studies’ findings interesting, but said that although humans and chimpanzees share similar emotions to some degree -- fear, anger, empathy -- ...."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleash ... umans.html


You happen to catch the rest of it? You know, the part where Standford indicates the danger in extrapolating on the chimps' perception of death? Arguing that something could be true because it is possible isn't exactly a sound position. What about the instance where some chimps "played house" with the ribcage of a dead antelope?

Gamble much?

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:00 am 
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Fosgate wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
Craig Stanford, co-director of the University of Southern California Jane Goodall Research Center, called the studies’ findings interesting, but said that although humans and chimpanzees share similar emotions to some degree -- fear, anger, empathy -- ...."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleash ... umans.html


You happen to catch the rest of it? You know, the part where Standford indicates the danger in extrapolating on the chimps' perception of death? Arguing that something could be true because it is possible isn't exactly a sound position. What about the instance where some chimps "played house" with the ribcage of a dead antelope?

Gamble much?


I haven't gambled since I was 10 years old. I was on the ferry between Ireland and Liverpool and got hooked on a slot machine. Lost every pence I had in my little pocket and realized what a hazard gambling is. Have since stayed away. It was a good lesson and god bless my parents for letting me have it!

I posted 3 links.

I did catch that part about the chimps playing with the ribcage of the dead antelope in Standford's observations but didn't include it in the quote because I don't think it's relevent. I've pulled many a "wish-bone" in my life. Sometimes I 'won' and sometimes I 'lost', but I never put any money on it .... especially after that incident with the slot machine.

I've also seen many carcasses in my lifetime ... and I am always curious about them. I usually examine them quite closely. I'm interested to see how the bugs get in there .... and how quickly. I'm curious about the process of decay and how the earth reabsorbs them. I'm fascinated abot how decay ultimately feeds new life. I love finding bones!


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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:19 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
I did catch that part about the chimps playing with the ribcage of the dead antelope in Standford's observations but didn't include it in the quote because I don't think it's relevent.


It certainly doesn't corroborate your argument. I'm sure it's just coincidence that you think it is irrelevant, however.

Quote:
I've pulled many a "wish-bone" in my life. Sometimes I 'won' and sometimes I 'lost', but I never put any money on it .... especially after that incident with the slot machine.


Lessons learned should probably extend to just how far out on a limb you go.

Quote:
I've also seen many carcasses in my lifetime ... and I am always curious about them. I usually examine them quite closely.


Chimps too, apparently. Must be weird toying around with something like that while also grieving over it. What's that like?

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:22 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... rieve.html



Me too Knight

"....we were immediately struck during the video by the phenomena we observed," Anderson said, "because we know chimpanzees are capable of a wide range of emotions very much akin to human emotions."

Craig Stanford, co-director of the University of Southern California Jane Goodall Research Center, called the studies’ findings interesting, but said that although humans and chimpanzees share similar emotions to some degree -- fear, anger, empathy -- ...."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleash ... umans.html

And then, "The researchers, reporting in the April 27 issue of the scientific journal Current Biology, say their observation adds to the growing body of evidence suggesting that chimps have a rich emotional life."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126278183


But some of us already knew that, right Knight? Right!


Right!

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:25 am 
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Fosgate wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...


Seriously? I compel you to offer evidence supporting just that.


"The sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes"

If you need it explaining, there'd be no point in explaining...

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:13 am 
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knightofalbion wrote:
Fosgate wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...


Seriously? I compel you to offer evidence supporting just that.


"The sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes"

If you need it explaining, there'd be no point in explaining...


I love it. I'm not saying that you're an atheist, but I just love it when I hear stuff like this from them. There actually used to be one on the board here arguing as you are. Faith apparently knows no bounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:44 pm 
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knightofalbion wrote:
Fosgate wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
I defy anybody to tell me that what you are witnessing in the picture (link) is NOT a heart-rending expression of love & grief...


Seriously? I compel you to offer evidence supporting just that.


"The sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes"

If you need it explaining, there'd be no point in explaining...



Some people see the sorrow and follow that with a superficial response.

Some people are blind and fall a dead thud.

Others feel the sorrow with empathy and become vegan.


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 Post subject: Re: Love me, love my rat
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:59 pm 
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mothy wrote:
Others feel the sorrow with empathy and become vegan.


Such vegan interpretation of what of they see is right because...what...they say so? And, if one doesn't see that, they're cruel and lack compassion?

You know, some tell me that I'm going to burn in hell too. They're generally members of faiths with centuries-old manuscripts and over 3.5 billion combined followers.

Better get in line, huh?

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