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We ARE limited to Earth. What is with you, Wayne? You used to be on the logical side, with the ecologists and most of the climatologists. A voice of reason, and often with good data and links. Maybe you need more anti-oxidants and B-vitamins.
Not unless we make the choice to be limited. We have the technology to build a sustainable colony on either the Moon or Mars at this time. The costs would be huge, of course, but we have that ability.
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No, we are CURRENTLY limited to one planet, but we have sufficient technology to begin colonization of the Moon and Mars if we had the direction. That technology shoud improve with time. With the advent of private space travel the probability of private colonies increases with each year. At some point the equation then changes to indicate the added growth potential.
No Wayne. This really is a bizarre idea. Some people have religion to hinge their hopes on and it seems you have hinged your hopes on science. You have an idea that is purely based on science and rationality and therefore ..... f@cked! Have you not seen where this line of so called reason and scientifically rational has placed us? (rhetorical question .....)
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And what do you expect? A change in human nature that will trigger a divine intervention that will reverse the problems we have created? Or maybe science will find a way to reverse the problems, but that would be a very ironic hope for you. The only other option is the problems we created eliminate us as a species to allow the next species to evolve to this level a shot at it.
What are you up for Wayne? You better be able to face it because science isn't going to do it for us and moving the operation to Mars isn't either. What's left? it is very possible that the Earth will be tired of our shennanigans and wipe us out. That is exactly what we are facing. The Earth might come up with another species, and unless we can pull it together, we should wish that species love and fortitude.
If we are no longer only on the Earth, that would be a moot point.
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It's as if you would like us to take our problems to another planet and not expect those problems to uccur there too because we are now in a different geographical place.
Actually it would cause us to make some very important changes. You cannot be very wasteful in a colony with little resourses. You cannot terraform a planet like Mars and pollute it at the same time. So, yes moving to a new planet would force changes in our lifestyle.
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Why not make those changes here and now? We have a perfectly good planet .... a very beautiful one. The demise of this planet should force some changes if we want to keep our domicile.
We could, but there is nothing to force such a change like there is in the situation I described, which means there will be more opposition to the change here.
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It's as if you think the solutions to our problems is to take them to another place ..... and once we are there, our problems will be solved?
Just some of them and there would be new ones just as there has been throughout our history.
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And then we would move to a different planet?
Maybe a lot of new planets and new solutions to new problems for all.
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You are missing the point entirely! You cannot take the problems you are having in Greece to Florida! We will always take our problems with us no matter where we are. Creating a "moon-base" might be plausiblle and hopeful and interesting .... but it is never a real solution.
I suppose extinction is the next best solution then ......
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Extinction of our species .... Earth would survive and regenerate eventually ... given time.
Yes, it would, but most rational people do not want their species to becoem extinct.
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How do you relocate a crisis in consciousness? You can't. We can't. It is our crisis and we will bring it with us wherever we go .... Science cannot solve this for us Wayne. It is not the panacea. It may have SOME answers and it may have some part, but we are faced with a much wider recognizing ... a much more holistic perspective than your ultra male brain is capable of. (Had to throw that in .... because your thinking is male .... and getting old by the minute. Not that I have anything against male thinking. In fact, I love it! When well placed)
Just waiting for divine intervention then are we?
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We ARE the divine intervention. There is no God and no Science that can help us now. It is up to us.
Then we are going extinct.
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You can't avoid it with scientific possibilities Wayne. Relocating our crisis to another planet will only relocate that very same crisis as if geographical place solves all.
No, there is little fossil fuels on either the Moon or Mars so that one problem goes away.
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Okay. Do you see how weird this is getting? I can't even begin to answer this .....
How wierd? I point out the problems that cannot follow and you cannot deal with that why? Issues such as fossil fuels will go away on a colony on another planet, which will force the use of other energy methods, and in turn increase the efficiency of the methods used. That technology can then be applied to other areas such as the Earth.
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We cannot take our current understanding to another planet and not expect the same problems there as we have now. If we can't figure it our here .... how in the world are we going to figure it out there?
We have figured things out without remaining stagnant in one location and we can in the future if we survive. If we do not survive it does not matter to us anyway.
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Wayne, most of us ARE concerned about how to create a sustainable Earth. This is our planet. This is the planet we live on. This is a beautiful planet.
It is also a home with a finite life span regardless of what we do. It may still be a very long span at this point but still finite and unless we are to be finite as a species we need to progress outward.
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I don't care if it is scientifically possible because we have many scientifically proven solutions, but they are not solutions at all. If we can not even understand that we are connected HERE, and if we cannot figure this basic understanding out HERE, how are we going to figure it out THERE? We cannot solely depend on rationality and logic to dig us out of this mess because rationality is ONLY one arm
And the other is faith? Like the faith that opposes birth control because it was necessary to have a lot of children if a few were to survive at one point in our history?
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Ummm .... no. What are you on about? Faith in what?
Religions are the areas solely dependent on faith.
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Where does that come from? It's not about faith or hope ..... it's about us. There's nobody here but us chickens. We're it.
Then what is there but rationality and science if we are all there is? Assuming, of course, there are no life forms outside of our own elsewhere and there is no greater science base than ours.
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If we can't figure it out in France how are we going to figure it out in Italy? If we can't figure it out on Earth, how are we going to figure it out on Mars or the Moon?
If it gives us extra time to figure it out and new views to assist, how exactly is that wrong?
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It's not wrong or right .... but we have no time. The time is now!
If we move out to other planets we do have more time in which to find solutions.
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Aaaaugh! It is these same rationalities that lead you to believe GMO's are a plausible answer because they solve the immediate answers to our current problems.
Starvation is also a plausible answer to the same current problems, but not one I would like to make. There are no other plausible answers at this point.
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Thank you for finally admitting it!
Admitting starvation is not a plausible solution? Sure.
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There are NO plausible answers
Actually, there are but you just want to ignore them.
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... no GMO's,
They are plausible just those like yourself oppose them because change is scary.
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no going to Mars,
It is plausible, expensive, but plausible.
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no God,
That is one the religions will have to take up.
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no scientific panacea.
Actually, there are many scientific solutions possible.
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What we are left with is each other. Do you think we can do it? I think it's possible but not guaranteed. It depends on how we relate to each other and at this point it's about 50/50.
What do we do with each other? No scieince just sitting around singing beside a fire or something?
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Moving to the Moon would solve some problems..... as would GMO's ... Monsanto or otherwise. But they do not address the root problems and we must .....
So we ignore all of the problems that may kill many of us off to concentrate on what you believe is a more important problem? Thanks, but no.
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No. We meet these problems head-on which means we stop considering nationalites as a reality because they are not. They have NEVER been a reality .... we made them up. We begin to actually see that we are one people living on one planet and we don't wait for religious and national belief systems to catch up with us, because leaders don't wait. You're a leader Wayne, I know you are! We see that every single person on this beautiful planet needs basics, such as food and water and shelter and we begin with ourselves .... shouting it from the roof tops because we know it is true and we are deeply concerned with truth. We do not ignore .... anything .... we do not agree to short sighted solutions because they are NOT solutions. We speak up against the old and tired so-called "solution" of war, because we know that there is no such thing as "us vs. them". Both "us" and "them" need food, water and shelter. We are one people living on one planet. We know that we must live together which means we must lead ourselves which means that we form and strengthen our existing communities and we do not rely on elected governments who are really just puppets acting in favor of multi-national corporations.
Good luck with making that change in systems BEFORE we can begin to address the problems being discussed.
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The game is up and that is really what the Occupy Movement was all about, and IS all about, because it it alive and well, .... still. It's going to be difficult but we must face it and the possibilty is that we MIGHT make it. We still have a chance and that possibilty must be in the here and now because there is not time .... no time for terminator seeds and no time for Mars.
No time for all but the solutions you hope to see? Not time for them if they cannot be done in time either.