EnviroLink Forum

Wayne you have a good brain but you realise you have a young soul.
Nurture your intuitions for they will serve you good.

There are those who claim I have no soul ..... and others who claim I have more than most. Who really knows?

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With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

tl;dq

Souls don't exist.


Now I don't necessarily believe in right other than the ones we grant ourselves and others. However, through realism

Could we stop suffering animals caused by other animals? Perhaps. But as of the moment, it simply isn't feasible. There will be too much research and money needed.

Humans can stop suffering of animals by getting rid of factory farming, eating more plants, and spreading the word out.

And even though plants may be able to have negative stimuli, you still need to show that they are self aware.

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"In My view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

If the animals are killed in a humane manner, unlike the natural predators, where is the problem?



and none have to show that animals are self aware to meet the same criteria?

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

There is no scientific evidence for the existence of souls. Claiming that something doesn't exist, however, would be like saying that the earth is flat back when no one really knew any better.



Putting beliefs to paper--the Bible, the Quran, even the US Constitution--doesn't make them any more "real". The only thing "real" about them are humans reacting in ways that support them.



Of course we could. Probably wouldn't be advantageous for the animals involved, but it is certainly possible.



Bullets are pretty cheap. If you kill them, you end suffering, ufortunately the propagation of the species as well.



You'd limit specific instances of abuse, yes, but you would not significantly impact suffering one way or the other.



Actually, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that higher vertebrate stimulus response deserves increased attention.

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TANG SOO!

Animal protection is NOT the most meaningful cause---reducing human population to long term sustainable level is.
As far as proof of a soul. People lose a small amount of weight at the time of death, I have heard.
In any event, I personally believe everything has a soul to a certain extent, even rocks.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”
― Chief Seattle

Bullets are pretty cheap. If you kill them, you end suffering, ufortunately the propagation of the species as well.
[/quote]

So it wouldn't be good in the long run. So research is how we do it.







I just did. You just admit they are higher.




Humans are animals and our actions impact other animals, so this would be a part of the cause anyways.

_________________
"In My view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

You've demonstrated it because you got me to admit it? Wow. I hate to break it to you, but I made no such admission and if I did, it demonstrates nothing beyond agreement. You're really grasping for straws here. Why not simply answer the question?

Why is higher vertebrate stimulus response deserving of increased consideration?

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TANG SOO!

If you don't know who higher vertebrate stimulus response is deserving of increased consideration there's no need to respond.

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"In My view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

Huh? That does not make sense as it is written.

It is too bad you cannot respond rationally to such a simple question.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

cute kills logic. If I told you a vicious killer was causing the extinction of countless species including killing for fun and that there was a cheap way of preventing the rapid growth in the population of this species you might be in favor of killing some of these killers when they are young before they do damage. When I inform you that this method is called "clubbing baby seals" it suddenly seems like a different scenario... but it is not.

one of the most destructive invasive species that has caused more species extinction then humans is the animal shown in this YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQHCZcSRCOQ

My point is to say that "higher stimulus response" makes little difference when you are trying to save animals from suffering. Club some seals, poison stray cats, and please PLEASE get your vasectomy or tubes tied to control the worst blight to the earth ever.

If you don't know why higher vertebrate stimulus response is deserving of increased consideration there's no need to respond

If you want to put yourself in the same level as a plant despite having higher response to your environment, that's your choice.



I think the last 2 don't involve as much suffering as the 1st. Most people use guns to hunt anyways.

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"In My view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

That is no real answer and the implied basis is flawed.

Why "put yourself in the same level" of ANY response lower than the one you belong? That is the question you cannot seem to answer beyond just an arbitrary desire.

Maybe you can go with the old "animals with faces" are cuter division? How about just warm fuzzy mammals?



You think poison would cause less suffering than a crushing blow to the head? What happens to that "higher function" when the brain is separated from the spinal cord and crushed?

Also, what does using guns have to do with the points made?

You might want to just fall back to a pure emotional point rather than blowing the attempt to set some rational division which is randomly chosen.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein