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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:06 pm 
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It was Donald Watson who first coined the word 'vegan' and who founded the Vegan Movement.

He talked the talk and he walked the walk - and he left a golden path behind him.

Be inspired!

http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/people/D ... atson.html

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:31 pm 
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some interesting quotes from that interview:
    Some theologians think that Christ was an Essene. If he was, he was a vegan
    ...and believing that scientists must now accept conscience as part of the scientific equation.
    By the way, all my digging is done with a fork - not a spade - to preserve earthworms.
    Q: What are your views on genetically modified organisms? A: [if it] seems too good to be true, it probably is
    Most orthodox medicines are tested on animals... [vegans taking them commit] a more serious inconsistency even than wearing leather
    we must always remember: is it just possible that our ["direct action"] act could be counterproductive?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:
Q: What are your views on genetically modified organisms? A: [if it] seems too good to be true, it probably is
Most orthodox medicines are tested on animals... [vegans taking them commit] a more serious inconsistency even than wearing leather


All new medicines and many procedures are tested on animals as part of the safety determination.

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we must always remember: is it just possible that our ["direct action"] act could be counterproductive?


Very true.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Interview with Donald Watson wrote:
Q: What are your views on animal experiments?
A: I said that cruel sports were the bottom of the barrel, but I think I'll have to move even them up one and put vivisection at the bottom. One thing we should always ask when we think that cruelty is largely delegated to the people who perform it is the simple question, if these butchers and vivisectors weren't there, could we perform the acts that they are doing? If we couldn't, we have no right to expect them to do those things on our behalf. Most orthodox medicines are tested on animals, and this perhaps is the greatest inconsistency in vegetarians and vegans who take orthodox medicines - a more serious inconsistency even than wearing leather or wool because these are by-products of industries that are primarily there to provide meat.


Ann Vole wrote:
Most orthodox medicines are tested on animals... [vegans taking them commit] a more serious inconsistency even than wearing leather


Wayne Stollings wrote:
All new medicines and many procedures are tested on animals as part of the safety determination


And Donald Watson is suggesting it is a worse offense to the vegan ideology to use these modern medicines that involve animal testing then using the by-products of animals already slated to die (meat industry). Note that I am not a vegan but respect the movement and it's goals. This just stood out as an interesting thing many people don't think about when they think they are being vegans.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:
Interview with Donald Watson wrote:
Q: What are your views on animal experiments?
A: I said that cruel sports were the bottom of the barrel, but I think I'll have to move even them up one and put vivisection at the bottom. One thing we should always ask when we think that cruelty is largely delegated to the people who perform it is the simple question, if these butchers and vivisectors weren't there, could we perform the acts that they are doing? If we couldn't, we have no right to expect them to do those things on our behalf. Most orthodox medicines are tested on animals, and this perhaps is the greatest inconsistency in vegetarians and vegans who take orthodox medicines - a more serious inconsistency even than wearing leather or wool because these are by-products of industries that are primarily there to provide meat.


Ann Vole wrote:
Most orthodox medicines are tested on animals... [vegans taking them commit] a more serious inconsistency even than wearing leather


Wayne Stollings wrote:
All new medicines and many procedures are tested on animals as part of the safety determination


And Donald Watson is suggesting it is a worse offense to the vegan ideology to use these modern medicines that involve animal testing then using the by-products of animals already slated to die (meat industry). Note that I am not a vegan but respect the movement and it's goals. This just stood out as an interesting thing many people don't think about when they think they are being vegans.


I agree, I was just pointing out that ALL new medications were tested on animals so there is very little chance of not having an animal test involved with a medicine. Something like aspirin, for example could predate that requirement although the coated version is another story.

http://voices.yahoo.com/vegan-beware-an ... 25615.html

That was a point of discussion here at one time when there were some ethical vegans making claims they did not use animal products. Another aspect was steel production which I believe also uses animal products.

http://www.rense.com/general39/animal.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:49 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
That was a point of discussion here at one time when there were some ethical vegans making claims they did not use animal products
I have worked on grain farms long enough to know that all crops involve the death of countless rodents. Many larger animals also get killed. It is not the fault of the farmer but rather the low price of grain and high price of labor that is forcing the farmer to use bigger and faster equipment that is more and more likely to kill wildlife hiding in the crops or underground. There is a new grain harvesting method that looks promising to be lower in fuel use and allows much of the energy used to be electric. It gathers the whole heads of grain and as such reduces animal kills (the blades are higher). The test results had the surprising number in one research I read on the method - about 10-15% of the non-grain stuff sifted out of the grain (done in stationary harvesters that could be electric) was animal bodies. Now a good portion of that could be grasshoppers and midge but they did list rodents in the list of possible contaminants (for those who may want to use this waste as animal feed). I would estimate at least 1 hare would be killed per field (square mile) every year and good chance to kill big birds and deer. My point is if you truly want to go vegan, you have to grow your food by hand at home. Part of that reality was brought home as I try to raise rodents for pets and have them getting epidemics from the rodents I see being sifted out by the thousands per square mile in combines (when the plug up, I crawl inside to pull out weeds and there they are in large numbers... dead voles and deermice). How do I get uncontaminated food for my rodents? "Organic" is guaranteed to have more rodent contamination then the heavily pesticide-use mono-crops. No, I have to have a rodent-free greenhouse and make the food myself.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:01 am 
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How do I get uncontaminated food for my rodents? "Organic" is guaranteed to have more rodent contamination then the heavily pesticide-use mono-crops. No, I have to have a rodent-free greenhouse and make the food myself.[/quote]

We all need to be growing food .... sharing our backyards, balconies, rooftops, planting where we can.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:26 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
We all need to be growing food .... sharing our backyards, balconies, rooftops, planting where we can.
Agreed 100%! My secondary goal in life is to show people how to live independently via an energy-self-sufficient house and food-self-sufficient lifestyle using features of that house such as greenhouses and cold-storage rooms. (My primary goal in life is to make films and books with talking animals... one which I can do while also doing the secondary goal above and also be more accessible to people who do not know the language of the media... animals will show them rather then some white dude telling them)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:40 am 
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the interview of the watson is very informative..i like him very much...he says correctly about the animals.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Vegans are aware of the problems surrounding animal tested products and campaign for change. Fortunately I have, as yet, not needed to take medication that has been tested on animals.

It's a vegans goal to avoid all animal tested products but when it come to the medical monopoly of animal tested medication we have no other choice.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:23 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Vegans are aware of the problems surrounding animal tested products and campaign for change. Fortunately I have, as yet, not needed to take medication that has been tested on animals.


Other than the vaccines when you were young or the OTC medications other than aspirin?

Quote:
It's a vegans goal to avoid all animal tested products but when it come to the medical monopoly of animal tested medication we have no other choice.


I can see where that is a difficult goal for medication, but still very much more difficult with the animal products used throughout our society.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:

Other than the vaccines when you were young or the OTC medications other than aspirin?


I have never had any vaccines. Or OTC medication.

Quote:
I can see where that is a difficult goal for medication, but still very much more difficult with the animal products used throughout our society.


It's getting better.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:27 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Vegans are aware of the problems surrounding animal tested products and campaign for change. Fortunately I have, as yet, not needed to take medication that has been tested on animals.

It's a vegans goal to avoid all animal tested products but when it come to the medical monopoly of animal tested medication we have no other choice.


We (I'm a vegan too) have the option of naturopathic medicine.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:32 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:


Other than the vaccines when you were young or the OTC medications other than aspirin?


I have never had any vaccines. Or OTC medication.


No vaccines at all? You were home-schooled I suppose.

tommee wrote:
Quote:
I can see where that is a difficult goal for medication, but still very much more difficult with the animal products used throughout our society.


It's getting better.


Not really if you actually look at what is involved with animal products. Few things are produced without steel which uses animal products in the production, for example.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:58 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

No vaccines at all? You were home-schooled I suppose.


That's correct none at all. No I did go to private boarding school though.

Quote:

Not really if you actually look at what is involved with animal products. Few things are produced without steel which uses animal products in the production, for example.


Yes some steel production uses animal fats in the process but it's not needed and one thing that can be changed. Splitting hairs..

The idea of veganism in the modern world is to avoid animal products but we can't totally avoid them but campaign for change.

It's getting better.


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