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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:45 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

No vaccines at all? You were home-schooled I suppose.


That's correct none at all. No I did go to private boarding school though.


Not in the US? Most states require vaccines in order to attend school, even an accredited private school.

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Not really if you actually look at what is involved with animal products. Few things are produced without steel which uses animal products in the production, for example.


Yes some steel production uses animal fats in the process but it's not needed and one thing that can be changed. Splitting hairs..


How is it splitting hairs when the steel is produced using animal products and the benefits of said animal product use is accapted by the vegan community? It seems more of an "excused" used than an avoidance.

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The idea of veganism in the modern world is to avoid animal products but we can't totally avoid them but campaign for change.


Of course you cannot totally avoid them, that is the flaw in the vegan movement.

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It's getting better.



Again, not really as the use of animal products continues to increase over time.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:45 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

Not in the US? Most states require vaccines in order to attend school, even an accredited private school.


Thankfully i live in a country that doesn't force vaccines on the populous.


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How is it splitting hairs when the steel is produced using animal products and the benefits of said animal product use is accapted by the vegan community? It seems more of an "excused" used than an avoidance.


You fail to take in the beginnings of veganism and add your own spin on it. No excuse at all, it's reality living in a predominately animal-cruelty environment. Abstain from what you can and campaign to change what you can't.

"Moreover, humans have so commodified animals that it is virtually impossible to avoid animal exploitation completely. Animal by-products are used in a wide variety of things, including the asphalt on roads and synthetic fabrics. But the impossibility of avoiding all contact with animal exploitation does not mean that we cannot avoid the most obvious and serious forms of exploitation. The individual who is not stranded in a lifeboat or on a mountaintop always has it within her power to avoid eating meat and dairy products, products that could not be produced without the use of animals, unlike drugs and medical procedures, which could be developed without animal testing."

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/faqs/

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Of course you cannot totally avoid them, that is the flaw in the vegan movement.



When you can prove we can't live on this planet and produce products such as steel without the use of animal fats you may have a point. The theory needs to be put in practise but while vegans are in the minority we have no real control.


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Again, not really as the use of animal products continues to increase over time.


Population increase will increase the demand for animal products in manufacture. With the rise in numbers of vegans the balance will tip. Supply and demand.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:07 am 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

Not in the US? Most states require vaccines in order to attend school, even an accredited private school.


Thankfully i live in a country that doesn't force vaccines on the populous.


Good for population control I suppose.


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How is it splitting hairs when the steel is produced using animal products and the benefits of said animal product use is accapted by the vegan community? It seems more of an "excused" used than an avoidance.


Quote:
You fail to take in the beginnings of veganism and add your own spin on it.


The beginnings of veganism? The term has been around for almost 70 years and the concept has been around since Pythagoras. Just how much of a beginning do I have to take into consideration before it stops splitting hairs?

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No excuse at all, it's reality living in a predominately animal-cruelty environment. Abstain from what you can and campaign to change what you can't.


Fair concept, but far from avoiding the use of animal products in all or even most cases. The inconvenient avoidance is where the actions fail the words.

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"Moreover, humans have so commodified animals that it is virtually impossible to avoid animal exploitation completely. Animal by-products are used in a wide variety of things, including the asphalt on roads and synthetic fabrics. But the impossibility of avoiding all contact with animal exploitation does not mean that we cannot avoid the most obvious and serious forms of exploitation. The individual who is not stranded in a lifeboat or on a mountaintop always has it within her power to avoid eating meat and dairy products, products that could not be produced without the use of animals, unlike drugs and medical procedures, which could be developed without animal testing."

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/faqs/


Ok, where are the operations that propose other materials for all of those products? As I said, it seems to be more of an excuse for the difficult aspects to me.


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Quote:

Of course you cannot totally avoid them, that is the flaw in the vegan movement.



When you can prove we can't live on this planet and produce products such as steel without the use of animal fats you may have a point. The theory needs to be put in practise but while vegans are in the minority we have no real control.


You have control over what you use. The Amish took a position on technology and follow their beliefs in the real world. They are clearly a minority too. How is it they can live within their beliefs and the vegans cannot come close?


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Again, not really as the use of animal products continues to increase over time.


Population increase will increase the demand for animal products in manufacture. With the rise in numbers of vegans the balance will tip. Supply and demand.


Demand which the vegans are supporting. It seems that should be the first thing to change, but that is just the logical me talking.

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