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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:48 am 
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viewtopic.php?p=180933#p180933

Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=ref_data.annexes


Ok this lists restricted substances, provisionally allowed substances, allowed preservatives, UV filters, and coloring agents. That leaves some 260,000 + known chemical compounds which could be used, but may require testing .... right?

List of substances which cosmetic products must not contain except subject to the restrictions and conditions laid down

List of substances provisionally allowed

List of colouring agents allowed for use in cosmetic products (1)

List of colouring agents provisionally allowed for use in cosmetic products

List of preservatives allowed

List of preservatives provisionally allowed

List of permitted UV filters which cosmetic products may contain

List of UV filters which cosmetic products may provisionally contain


Where is the list of all accepted substances referenced? Which annex is it specifically?

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:58 am 
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http://www.leffingwell.com/cosmetics/vol_1en.pdf

Annex I Illustrative list by category of cosmetic products

Annex II List of substances which must not form part of the
composition
of cosmetic products

Annex III List of substances which cosmetic products must not contain except subject to restrictions and conditions laid down and List of substances provisionally allowed

Annex IV List of colouring agents allowed for use in cosmetic
products

Annex V List of substances excluded from the scope of the Directive

Annex VI List of preservatives which cosmetic products may contain

Annex VII List of UV filters which cosmetic products may contain


Nope, no list of allowed substances here ......

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:00 am 
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List from Annex I

— Creams, emulsions, lotions, gels and oils for the skin (hands, face, feet, etc.).
— Face masks (with the exception of chemical peeling products).
— Tinted bases (liquids, pastes, powders).
— Make-up powders, after-bath powders, hygienic powders, etc.
— Toilet soaps, deodorant soaps, etc.
— Perfumes, toilet waters and eau de Cologne.
— Bath and shower preparations (salts, foams, oils, gels, etc.).
— Depilatories.
— Deodorants and anti-perspirants.
— Hair care products:
— hair tints and bleaches,
— products for waving, straightening and fixing,
— setting products,
— cleansing products (lotions, powders, shampoos),
— conditioning products (lotions, creams, oils),
— hairdressing products (lotions, lacquers, brilliantines).
— Shaving products (creams, foams, lotions, etc.).
— Products for making-up and removing make-up from the face and the eyes.
— Products intended for application to the lips.
— Products for care of the teeth and the mouth.
— Products for nail care and make-up.
— Products for external intimate hygiene.
— Sunbathing products.
— Products for tanning without sun.

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
http://www.leffingwell.com/cosmetics/vol_1en.pdf

Annex I Illustrative list by category of cosmetic products

Annex II List of substances which must not form part of the
composition
of cosmetic products

Annex III List of substances which cosmetic products must not contain except subject to restrictions and conditions laid down and List of substances provisionally allowed

Annex IV List of colouring agents allowed for use in cosmetic
products

Annex V List of substances excluded from the scope of the Directive

Annex VI List of preservatives which cosmetic products may contain

Annex VII List of UV filters which cosmetic products may contain


Nope, no list of allowed substances here ......



Art. 4(1) : Without prejudice to their general obligations deriving from Article 2,
Member States shall prohibit the marketing of cosmetic products containing :
a. substances listed in Annex II;
b. substances listed in the first part of Annex III, beyond the limits and outside the
conditions laid down;
c. colouring agents other than those listed in Annex IV, Part I. with the exception of
cosmetic products containing colouring agents intended solely to colour hair;
d. colouring agents listed in Annex IV, Part 1, used outside the conditions laid down,
with the exception of cosmetic products containing colouring agents intended
solely to colour hair;
e. preservatives other than those listed in Annex VI, Part 1;
f. preservatives listed in Annex VI, Part 1, beyond the limits and outside the
conditions laid down, unless other concentrations are used for specific purposes
apparent from the presentation of the product;
g. UV filters other than those listed in Part 1 of Annex VII;
h. UV filters listed in Part 1 of Annex VII, beyond the limits and outside the
conditions laid down therein;

[-X


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=180933#p180933

Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=ref_data.annexes


Ok this lists restricted substances, provisionally allowed substances, allowed preservatives, UV filters, and coloring agents. That leaves some 260,000 + known chemical compounds which could be used, but may require testing .... right?

List of substances which cosmetic products must not contain except subject to the restrictions and conditions laid down

List of substances provisionally allowed

List of colouring agents allowed for use in cosmetic products (1)

List of colouring agents provisionally allowed for use in cosmetic products

List of preservatives allowed

List of preservatives provisionally allowed

List of permitted UV filters which cosmetic products may contain

List of UV filters which cosmetic products may provisionally contain


Where is the list of all accepted substances referenced? Which annex is it specifically?


The rationale behind Article 7a (d) is that, although there are many thousands of
different cosmetic products on the market within the EU, they are all derived from
fewer ingredients. Hence toxicity testing has been concentrated on ingredients, and
particularly on those that are intended to react with biological matrices and therefore
are of most concern for human health. This is also the basis for the lists of authorised
ingredients
currently covering colouring agents, preservatives and UV filters, more
specifically Annexes IV, VI and VII to Dir. 76/768/EEC.
In order to fulfil the main requirements regarding consumer health protection, Article 4
of Dir. 76/768/EEC and its amendments states that :
Art. 4b : The use in cosmetic products of substances classified as carcinogenic,
mutagenic or toxic for reproduction, of category 1, 2 and 3, under Annex I to Directive
67/548/EEC shall be prohibited. … A substance classified in category 3 may be used in
cosmetics if the substance has been evaluated by the SCCP and found acceptable for
use in cosmetic products.
:crazy:


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

If you read all about CLP you will see your answer Mr ST. Every ingredient has to be traceable by law. If a company is using an ingredient that isn't listed it can't use it if there is no alternative test... It can't use data for an ingredient if it has been tested on an animal even if it's been tested for pharmaceutical purposes. Data can't be used from parent companies overseas.

You understand what the CLP is and there is no list that is disallowed?

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/ ... ification/

This new Regulation on classification, labelling and packaging ("CLP Regulation") contributes to the GHS aim that the same hazards will be described and labelled in the same way all around the world.





I can see you have no rational discussion nor real evidence to provide in support of you beliefs. You are a waste of time and bandwidth at this point.

You do not even seem to comprehend the lists you tout are not what you believe they are. The list of general ingredients are only those not allowed or allowed with restrictions, not only what is allowed. I have pointed out that fact before and you failed to grasp it.


The list has already been linked in the many pages of this roundabout ](*,)

Yes you are a waste of bandwidth....


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:37 pm 
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No, Wayne is not a waste of bandwidth, YOU are, tommee. =P~ :razz: =;

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
No, Wayne is not a waste of bandwidth, YOU are, tommee. =P~ :razz: =;



It hurts when the pro animal abuse lobby get their butts kicked, I understand you feel down about animals having a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:37 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
No, Wayne is not a waste of bandwidth, YOU are, tommee. =P~ :razz: =;



It hurts when the pro animal abuse lobby get their butts kicked, I understand you feel down about animals having a chance.

It doesn't hurt me, and I don't feel down about animals having a chance. The more important things are human overpopulation and AGW causing extinctions, eventually reaching near 90% of all life forms.

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:28 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
http://www.leffingwell.com/cosmetics/vol_1en.pdf

Annex I Illustrative list by category of cosmetic products

Annex II List of substances which must not form part of the
composition
of cosmetic products

Annex III List of substances which cosmetic products must not contain except subject to restrictions and conditions laid down and List of substances provisionally allowed

Annex IV List of colouring agents allowed for use in cosmetic
products

Annex V List of substances excluded from the scope of the Directive

Annex VI List of preservatives which cosmetic products may contain

Annex VII List of UV filters which cosmetic products may contain


Nope, no list of allowed substances here ......



Art. 4(1) : Without prejudice to their general obligations deriving from Article 2,
Member States shall prohibit the marketing of cosmetic products containing :
a. substances listed in Annex II;
b. substances listed in the first part of Annex III, beyond the limits and outside the
conditions laid down;
c. colouring agents other than those listed in Annex IV, Part I. with the exception of
cosmetic products containing colouring agents intended solely to colour hair;
d. colouring agents listed in Annex IV, Part 1, used outside the conditions laid down,
with the exception of cosmetic products containing colouring agents intended
solely to colour hair;
e. preservatives other than those listed in Annex VI, Part 1;
f. preservatives listed in Annex VI, Part 1, beyond the limits and outside the
conditions laid down, unless other concentrations are used for specific purposes
apparent from the presentation of the product;
g. UV filters other than those listed in Part 1 of Annex VII;
h. UV filters listed in Part 1 of Annex VII, beyond the limits and outside the
conditions laid down therein;

[-X


Yes, that is exactly what I have said and the opposite of what you have said. There is a long list of specific substances which are prohibited for use NOT a long list of substances which may be used. There is a short list of colorings, preservatives, and UV filters which may be used.

#-o :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:31 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

That was the point being made and the whole context of that portion of the discussion concerning toxicity testing on compounds which were used in other applications in addition to the possible cosmetic uses. You did understand the discussion on the multiple uses and the testing would be required for those uses?

The link you provided does not relate to the current discussion on the change in the CLP supposedly eliminating the need for toxicity testing.

I am beginnig to wonder if you have any idea of what has been said, but are running on pure assumptions.


Wayne Stollings wrote:


So, if you can show where toxicity testing is no longer required for products sold in the EU you will have made a point .... if not you will have performed on a par with your peers.



From Thursday afternoon, in case you missed it .....


The whole idea of CLP is for safety assessment taken from the long list of already assessed chemicals the cosmetic industry can use without the need to test.


So much for that claim being near accurate ..... :oops: #-o

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“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=180933#p180933

Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=ref_data.annexes


Ok this lists restricted substances, provisionally allowed substances, allowed preservatives, UV filters, and coloring agents. That leaves some 260,000 + known chemical compounds which could be used, but may require testing .... right?

List of substances which cosmetic products must not contain except subject to the restrictions and conditions laid down

List of substances provisionally allowed

List of colouring agents allowed for use in cosmetic products (1)

List of colouring agents provisionally allowed for use in cosmetic products

List of preservatives allowed

List of preservatives provisionally allowed

List of permitted UV filters which cosmetic products may contain

List of UV filters which cosmetic products may provisionally contain


Where is the list of all accepted substances referenced? Which annex is it specifically?


tommee wrote:
The rationale behind Article 7a (d) is that, although there are many thousands of
different cosmetic products on the market within the EU, they are all derived from
fewer ingredients. Hence toxicity testing has been concentrated on ingredients, and
particularly on those that are intended to react with biological matrices and therefore
are of most concern for human health. This is also the basis for the lists of authorised
ingredients
currently covering colouring agents, preservatives and UV filters, more
specifically Annexes IV, VI and VII to Dir. 76/768/EEC.
In order to fulfil the main requirements regarding consumer health protection, Article 4
of Dir. 76/768/EEC and its amendments states that :
Art. 4b : The use in cosmetic products of substances classified as carcinogenic,
mutagenic or toxic for reproduction, of category 1, 2 and 3, under Annex I to Directive
67/548/EEC shall be prohibited. … A substance classified in category 3 may be used in
cosmetics if the substance has been evaluated by the SCCP and found acceptable for
use in cosmetic products.
:crazy:


So where is the list of the majority of the ingredients used in cosmetics as defined by the EU? The preservatives, UV filters, and colorings are but a very small portion of the active ingredients used. The other ingredients are the ones with the greater probability for toxicity in application.

_________________
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“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:47 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

If you read all about CLP you will see your answer Mr ST. Every ingredient has to be traceable by law. If a company is using an ingredient that isn't listed it can't use it if there is no alternative test... It can't use data for an ingredient if it has been tested on an animal even if it's been tested for pharmaceutical purposes. Data can't be used from parent companies overseas.

You understand what the CLP is and there is no list that is disallowed?

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/ ... ification/

This new Regulation on classification, labelling and packaging ("CLP Regulation") contributes to the GHS aim that the same hazards will be described and labelled in the same way all around the world.





I can see you have no rational discussion nor real evidence to provide in support of you beliefs. You are a waste of time and bandwidth at this point.

You do not even seem to comprehend the lists you tout are not what you believe they are. The list of general ingredients are only those not allowed or allowed with restrictions, not only what is allowed. I have pointed out that fact before and you failed to grasp it.


The list has already been linked in the many pages of this roundabout ](*,)

Yes you are a waste of bandwidth....


A VERY limited partial list of components limited to clolorings, preservatives, and UV filters, which cannot be used to develop any of the cosmetics as defined by Annex I by themselves. Your spin is weak as is your position on this and the total testing discussion.

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“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:50 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
No, Wayne is not a waste of bandwidth, YOU are, tommee. =P~ :razz: =;



It hurts when the pro animal abuse lobby get their butts kicked, I understand you feel down about animals having a chance.


Where did thaqt happen ... other than in your daydreams? You have been given the chance to grasp at straws and assume all of those ingredients used in cosmetics will not be tested on animals at any time in the future, but in reality the vasr majority will continue to be tested for all of the other applications for which they are also used.

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“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:53 am 
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Try the INCI :lolno:


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