EnviroLink Forum

Community • Ecology • Connection
It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:15 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Smokey the green bear
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I recently made a post here that pointed out how much the regular person contributes to the problems associated with energy use. I am reminded by the slogan of Smokey the bear... "Only YOU can prevent forest fires". Yeah, almost 100% of the energy used is used for consumer use and is directly connected with money spent. The remaining energy use is for war and guess what... most wars are involving resource access... yep it is the fault of people buying stuff if you look for the root cause. Save the environment and bring about world peace... just keep that money in you pockets.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:19 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
Ann Vole wrote:
I recently made a post here that pointed out how much the regular person contributes to the problems associated with energy use. I am reminded by the slogan of Smokey the bear... "Only YOU can prevent forest fires". Yeah, almost 100% of the energy used is used for consumer use and is directly connected with money spent. The remaining energy use is for war and guess what... most wars are involving resource access... yep it is the fault of people buying stuff if you look for the root cause. Save the environment and bring about world peace... just keep that money in you pockets.


I get you Ann ..... I just don't agree that the cause of war is about that. If it wasn't about energy use, what would it be about? Religion? Borders? If it isn't about energy, it would be about something else for sure. Name it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:46 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5776
Location: USA
animal-friendly wrote:
If it isn't about energy, it would be about something else for sure. Name it.


No. Natural resources about nails it.

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:58 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
animal-friendly wrote:
I just don't agree that the cause of war is about that
sure, not ALL war is over natural resources but I can not think of a single war where natural resources did not play a significant part in the decisions to go to war. Note that land and humans could be included in natural resources. The reason why Hitler attacked and killed most of the people in the Ukraine was purely for the crops as the allied forces had burned much of Germany's crops. That is just an example of how resources play a key role in war.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:09 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2291
Location: Central Colorado
In the distant past, wars were for territorial gain for resources. They still play a big role in the politics of war. Yet you have a religion that has declared jihad, holy war against all who do not submit to their way of believing, and desire an eventual worldwide caliphate. Then there are communists who wish for worldwide communism or socialism at least. Others, too, who would like to see worldwide democracy. But the big money is the international corporations who support politicians and others in political power for their own profit. So money is a big factor, and is roughly equivalent to resources in some ways, power in other ways.
Inflation is roughly caused by increasing amounts of people and dwindling resources. So not spending money can lead to the saved money being able to buy less than a year ago, unless it is invested in something that is increasing in value significantly faster than inflation. Investing can be risky, unless you are very rich with money invested in numerous areas.
In the distant past, wars were part of the natural way of selection and predation to keep the species improving and population below maximum sustainable. If a war could be that way now, it would benefit the species. However, wars have become negatively selective and not nearly big enough to make up for other lost predation like diseases and wild animal attacks, or starvation from an area drought or other calamity. People have not changed, for the most part, and have separated themselves from the natural world, so human numbers have been allowed to overshoot many times the level a wise species would have kept.
It is at a point where you may as well keep a good savings, but spend enough to have good alternative green power, plenty of supplies and means to protect them. It is most likely this inter-dependent global ecological niche will collapse region by region, probably at or before mid-century, depending on where you are.
Sure, there could be a disease like the 1918 flu epidemic, or a war worse than WWII, and the fertility rate is dropping. It is just that those things probably won't be big enough to stop collapse, or the far reaching effects of AGW and depletion of aquifers and soils.
To me, it seems foolhardy to fight for fossil fuels which should not be burned. It is also foolhardy to try to conquer through out-breeding those you wish to conquer, seeing humanity itself is in a state of catastrophic overshoot in population already.
The quicker population crashes to around a half billion, the more resources that will be left for the future and the less depletion and pollution effects. It is horrible, but "the bomb" could be the answer, to a wiser species. Everything that would lower population and emissions fast enough, is almost as horrible as the die-off itself. The people that do want to play God are not nearly wise enough, and those wise enough do not have the power, or inclination. So God's Laws of Nature will take their course in species die-off, probable CAGW after, with global ELE completion. A bottleneck, geologically, of probably at least 200K years. The chances for the human species making it that far are less than 1% IMHO.
Oh, for humanity to go back 11K years and have another chance, or even 50 years. Could knowing the future make it so we could change it, given enough time again? I knew 45 years ago and haven't been able to do much to stop the Juggernaut. 30K people in NPG have been unable to do much. Unlike Fosgate, I keep trying to stop the unstoppable beast. I will never give up, for the love of future kids and their chance to live, which is God's Will for me, among other things.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:10 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Great post Johhny Electriglide.
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
So not spending money can lead to the saved money being able to buy less than a year ago, unless it is invested in something that is increasing in value significantly faster than inflation.
The third option is what I am striving for... be prepared to provide a product or service that pays in what ever the common currency of the day is. This is the only inflation-proof investment. One type is rare and unique items but they assume someone will have spare income to spend and want that thing. Houses and land are such a rare and unique item and you can hold value by renting (so you get payed in the current value of money). The problem of course is that wars often pull land ownership out from under your feet. One thing people cannot take away from you is reputation and one thing that cannot be destroyed easily is information. A reputation for creating useful information can be the strongest tool for creating income. I am striving to produce films and books and website content and rent out facilities to create such content for others. Royalties on such information should be inflation-proof. The first order of business is to learn and create information on independent living for those future people trying to survive in a fallen society. Entertainment will also sell well in hard times.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group