EnviroLink Forum

I don' know what to say about the incaceration rates in the US.

As some prisons are privatized .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mGYHRAKs4Q

even kids are fodder....

What a beautifically functioning system.

Again math is our friend if one wants to know actual statistics. The RT reports seem to be less accurate and more sensational from what I have seen.

http://ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezaucr/asp/ucr_display.asp

Showing from 2001 - 2008 US Juvenile Violent Crimes per year on average

~1250 juvenile arrests for murder/ non-negligent manslaughter

~3500 juvenile arrests for violent rape

~29,000 juvenile arrests for robbery

~ 60,000 juvenile arrests for aggravated assault

Thus, the 2500 figure quoted for those incarcerated after conviction does not seem to be that out of line.

A good age breakdown of age at arrest would help their case IF the majority of those convicted are not in the upper ranges of what we call a juvenile.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

I agree that life in prison is cruel (but not unusual) punishment for juveniles, adults, and the taxpayers. It costs more than most people make per year to incarcerate someone, and of course people only pay a percentage in taxes, so it takes many people's taxes to incarcerate one person. In the meantime, taxes not spent on infrastructural upkeep cause a gradual breakdown in other areas, like bridges and roads. Statistically, 3 time burglars on up are 90% certain to commit crimes again after release. They also have a 50% higher reproductive rate and their children have a 66% chance of ending up in prison too. From articles I have read over the years.
I wrote Gore in 1995 a list of things that had to be done to lower population and pollution. One of those was to execute rapidly with a 22 bullet to the head (cheaply) all 3 time burglars on up (then compost their bodies with red worms to replenish depleted soils). This would help prevent future crime and save taxpayer money. It would have prevented cruel punishment to criminals and taxpayers over the long term. It would have helped lower population(along with nearly stopping immigration, and no tax write offs for kids) and improved the quality of the population while deterring crime.
Instead we have extremely gross overpopulation and an increase in juvenile crime, along with a National Debt of 15+ trillion and proportionate increase in pollution and depletion of resources.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

[quote="Johhny Electriglide"]I agree that life in prison is cruel (but not unusual) punishment for juveniles, adults, and the taxpayers.

We are talking about imprisoned children.

Do you know of another nation that imprisons children at the same rate? Could you please name them?

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Johny says that 'I agree that life in prison is cruel (but not unusual) punishment for juveniles, adults, and the taxpayers. [/

We are talking about imprisoned children.

You Wayne say, "First we would need to know the rate by which the US imprisons "children" in order to compare would we not? The opposition is either one is too many or there is some other rate which is too many. Until the goal posts are settled in the discussion is only one of assumption of assumptions."

Forget it. I don't really care about how many children are imprisoned in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere around the globe. Why compare? We are talking about the US. Are the goal posts not obvious? One child is too many. Is there one child in the US incarcerated? Are there more than one? This is the math.

And from your own sources ....


http://www.handsoffcain.info/archivio_n ... 36&mover=2

May 6, 2005: there are 2,100 children in jails across the Philippines, 20 of them on death row.
The figure was disclosed by Senator Ralph Recto who called on the Department of Justice to look into each of the cases of these children-prisoners languishing in overcrowded detentions nationwide.
Recto said government prosecutors and judges should "legally spring children out" of harshest conditions in many of the 1,222 jails all over the country. (Sources: Manila Standard, 07/05/2005)

http://inquest.gn.apc.org/website/polic ... -in-prison

The ECHR is an international treaty to protect human rights and fundamental freedoms in Europe, incorporated into UK law as the Human Rights ActThe Human Rights Act 1998 is an Act of Parliament that incorporated the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law. 1998. All Council of Europe member states including the UK have signed the Convention. Between January 2000 and December 2010 there was a total of 129 deaths of young people (aged 21 and under) and children aged 14-17 in prison and secure training centres. This figure includes 12 self-inflicted deaths of children in penal custody.

INQUEST believes that for many young people, prison is an inappropriate place where their experience of imprisonment can contribute directly to their death. We believe there needs to be a proper understanding of how vulnerable children should be treated in the criminal justice system and are calling for a properly-resourced public inquiry into the deaths of the 31 children who have died in state custody since 1990 in the hope that proper lessons can be learnt from these tragic deaths.

INQUEST has particular concerns about the high levels of restraint used on children in custody. We have produced case briefings on the restraint related deaths in 2004 of 14 year old Adam Rickwood, who took his own life in Hassockfield Secure Training Centre shortly after being restrained by staff, and 15 year old Gareth Myatt who died following the use of a controversial method of physical control at Rainsbrook STCSecure Training Centre.


http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s516102.htm

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/phi ... 30525.html[/quote]

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein