quote="Johhny Electriglide"]People, yeah!!! Their own selfish greed, lust, and stupidity, they ruin it for themselves then most other life, too.
Other species had the right to exist in a balanced biosphere.
Maybe it was too complicated for you AF.
The dinosaurs had a good 140 million year run, and got it, not from themselves, but from an asteroid strike of large enough size. It happened 4 times before, at least. The cyanobacteria that were the first global overbreeders, giving us our oxygen atmosphere, mostly died off from their own waste products. Much like yeast does making alcohol. Humans, on the whole, are acting much like those two single celled creatures.
Of course, not all people are to blame. There are a minority who live green like I do, and that doesn't necessarily mean not eating animals. Just not eating as much, and growing a lot ourselves. Our carbon footprint is 1/20th the average American's, and we do the 3 Rs. The main thing we did was have only one child, so the geometric future multiplier isn't there. I understand ecology, but how many really do in this world?
I think other species have the right to live without humans destroying their habitats one way or another. I think humans have the right to live within ecological limits, too. Unfortunately, instead, they are depleting and polluting the biosphere to the point of it causing a very high extinction rate, accelerating, that will eventually include themselves.
The time to stop the seeming madness has mostly been pissed away in inaction or insufficient action. Radical ideas that would have worked are as bad as what is to come, and like I said before, most likely will not happen. The crash is coming, the ELE is happening and will get much worse before a long, long recovery. Some, a few, can see it. Most are in denial or blindness.
Rights are a construct of humans, and will not be here when they are gone.[/quote]
Yes, rights are indeed a construct. Why did we need to construct them in the first place? This is simply a question to muse, to consider. Did we need to legislate "treating others as we would ourselves" because we weren't, becuase we aren't? We are on the brink of not being here .... it's actually not that complicated, even for me.
I do realize that people the world over, depending on geographics, climate, and other particular situations, do and will continue to need animals for sustenance. There is a relationship with animals that often and necessarily involves eating them and using their skins, fur, etc. When that relationship deteriorates, and it has, the idea of steak for dinner amounts to a kind of cannibalism. We have created an economic system which has turned animals into a commodity. In our inclusion of animals in the competetive nature of our economy, we have effectively lost and BROKEN our relationship with animals ... and with the environment. They are not separate. When you can buy two burgers for the price of one .....
I am probably "preaching to the converted", so I will not push this point any further. I'm sure you see what I mean.
Seems we might just have a different perspective even though our understanding of the massive hurdle we face is understood by both you and I. Yet our treatment of animals is indicative of our broken relationship with each other. Our treatment of each other is indicative of our our broken relationship with animals ..... and both are indicative of our broken relationship with the whole. We act and speak as if we are not a whole and this is why I say our perspectives may differ inspite of the fact that we share an understanding of the grave nature of our current situation.
Hitler and Mao may have shared some of our concerns ..... but look at where that got them and us. You can do little for those who are less educated than you, who are caught up in this trance of consumerism, but you can be a force for change in your community. "Think globally;act locally"
The US and Canada and some parts of Europe, while not being as population-dense as most of Asia and Africa, are the biggest consumers of the world's resources! So, yes .... population is a very real concern but life-style is perhaps of greater concern.
We are in this together. I simply do not see the value in blaming the less educated amongst us. And bombing or otherwise eradicating certain portions of the population is a tried and failed solution. It is no solution at all.
Linear solutions just don't cut it. We need to dig much deeper .... as yet unchartered territory? A new paradigm and possibly a radical shift in consciousness ... a mutation of sorts.
We must start where we are ... with fact rather than ideology. Life is nothing BUT relationship in every single facet. We cannot ignore our relationships with animals (just for instance) without considering our relationships with one another and vice-versa.
Engage your heart .... a place where the linear. logical mind cannot go. Hitler was logical to a point. Mao was too.