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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:39 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
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I have some questions about this Global Energy Budget. Every measurement is in Watts per square meter. 341 of shortwave radiation comes in. 102 of the shortwave is reflected back out. 239 IR going out. All outgoing adds up to 341. What comes in goes out. That makes sense. Here’s where things get a little muddy in my mind. 161 Wm^2 absorbed by the surface. But the surface releases almost twice the (356) watts per square meter of IR.


And has 333 in total back radiation to the surface from the atmosphere.

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How is that possible? 356 Wm^2 is above the measured amount of shortwave radiation coming in from the Sun hence my last question in the post proceeding. "Is there another source of heat other than the Sun?"


It is part of a heat cycle. The ground radiates, the atmosphere radiates back, the ground radiates, the atmospere radiates back, and so on. The depiction is an average day and thus does not show just the total in and out, but the cycle of energy within the day.

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Another question. Almost 100 percent of that release is back radiated 333 Wm^2.


~84% yes.

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How is it possible that according to this study the atmosphere (CO2?) is back radiating almost 100 percent of IR?


All of the GHGs and clouds are included. It is ~84% of the IR and that is how the planet remains warmer than it would without the Greenhouse Effect. It still leaves 40+ W m^2 which can be added to the retained energy, which is no small amount.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:44 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
More questions. Does this study treat the Earth as a flat disk?


Not likely, but I have not checked.

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Where is the night half in this study?


It is included. That is why such a high amount of IR is tabulated, the loss overnight.

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Does this study take into consideration radiation hitting the equator is different than at 50 degrees north latitude?


I believe this is the average for the planet a single day, for the average over one year.

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Angle of radiation is crucial as the season demonstrate. Is there any relation between heat transfer between the daylight and night time?


No transfer in on the night side, but always transfer out.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:43 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
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I love this image... very informative. Note that the energy in almost matches the energy out but not quite... this lack of balance is the heating or cooling trend of the earth... we are gaining with these numbers (341.3-101.9-238.5=4.6). note that this is the average energy reaching each square meter of the earths surface... this is not a volume of energy but a flow of energy (no time unit in the unit's "w m^-2" and a negative power is the same as 1 divided by the positive power so is "watts per meter squared"). Also note that the energy from the core of the earth would be included in the outgoing ir radiation. Some of the incoming visible light energy will be converted into chemical energy such as glucose and the resulting plant and animal and microbe biomass (which will mostly become methane and CO2 or will eventually become petrochemicals).


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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:50 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Milton Banana wrote:
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Quote:
How is that possible? 356 Wm^2 is above the measured amount of shortwave radiation coming in from the Sun hence my last question in the post proceeding. "Is there another source of heat other than the Sun?"


It is part of a heat cycle. The ground radiates, the atmosphere radiates back, the ground radiates, the atmospere radiates back, and so on. The depiction is an average day and thus does not show just the total in and out, but the cycle of energy within the day.



This budget has 341 Wm^2 coming into the atmosphere from the Sun. This budget has 356 Wm^2 being radiated from the ground. Now I understand Wm^2 is not a measurement of temperature. It is a measurement of energy flow.

What exactly happens at the ground/atmosphere border that causes this energy flow to double?

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Milton Banana wrote:
Image



Quote:
How is that possible? 356 Wm^2 is above the measured amount of shortwave radiation coming in from the Sun hence my last question in the post proceeding. "Is there another source of heat other than the Sun?"


It is part of a heat cycle. The ground radiates, the atmosphere radiates back, the ground radiates, the atmospere radiates back, and so on. The depiction is an average day and thus does not show just the total in and out, but the cycle of energy within the day.



Milton Banana wrote:
This budget has 341 Wm^2 coming into the atmosphere from the Sun. This budget has 356 Wm^2 being radiated from the ground. Now I understand Wm^2 is not a measurement of temperature. It is a measurement of energy flow.

What exactly happens at the ground/atmosphere border that causes this energy flow to double?


It flows outward constantly while the input only happens during the daylight hours.

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