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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:46 pm 
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http://climatecrocks.com/2012/06/19/hyb ... t-le-mans/



I believe we are seeing one of the big turning points for automotive power. When you can prove by winning an endurance race, you have won the game. THe hybirds dominated the race.
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CNN:

Audi made history by winning the classic race in a diesel-hybrid car for the first time. A hybrid car uses two types of technology for energy; Audi also adopted an electric flywheel system devised by the Williams F1 team to help power the car.

Edmund’s Insideline:

Just the Facts:

•Hybrid cars worldwide may have just gained a huge dose of credibility, thanks to the success this weekend of exotic new hybrid racecars from Audi and Toyota at the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
•It was the first victory for a hybrid racing car in 80 editions of the famous endurance race and a first in major auto racing competition.
•Two gasoline-electric hybrid Toyotas provided Audi’s stiffest competition.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:50 pm 
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I am conserned about how there is resistance to change in the United States. Notice that these aren't American companies. We are loosing our leadership due to status quo type thinking amongst our leaders.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:45 pm 
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renewable guy wrote:
I am conserned about how there is resistance to change in the United States. Notice that these aren't American companies. We are loosing our leadership due to status quo type thinking amongst our leaders.


Detroit keeps losing the leadership it gains because it caters to the American consumer who really wants to believe $0.50/gal gas will be back if we only drill more.

The small import cars were laughed at by the Big Three, when there was still a real "Big Three" in Detroit now that is the preference.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Detroit keeps losing the leadership it gains because it caters to the American consumer who really wants to believe $0.50/gal gas will be back if we only drill more.

The small import cars were laughed at by the Big Three, when there was still a real "Big Three" in Detroit now that is the preference.
I searched for 2 years for a vehicle that fit my requirements. I got a Toyota "station wagon" (really just a hatchback that the back door goes to the floor) with all-wheel drive and got good mileage and used it like a truck. The all-wheel drive is to use gravel roads with thick loose gravel.Toyotas rust to pieces very quickly. I got a Japanese minitruck... all-wheel drive, even better mileage then my Toyotas and it IS a truck. Even the hybrids barely match this truck for mileage. It can be done but the trucks look like 3/4 scale models of typical foreign trucks or 1/3 scale models of SUVs. Americans will not let them on the roads apparently because they will not survive an accident with an American vehicle. My point is that there are no options it seems coming from/to North America... not even foreign-built vehicles... Americans and Canadians just won't buy them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94mGB1ZA6ng - mini pulling SUV and then some

edit... here is a crash test - American truck vs mini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLcNwRi1Sk - yep, no crush zone. but that can be fixed (like they did for the Smart car) along with air bags and tougher passenger cage.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:10 am 
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If you catch me buying a new car, hybrid or not, be on the lookout for the 4th horseman of the apocalypse. He's probably right around the corner.

I've been getting by on used cars for years now, and that's half in part to a vehicle I've had since '02. Bought aJeep grand cherokee for my wife then with 50-something thousand miles . It's got 188k now and still runs like a scalded dog. V8's are fun. Even so, keeping and maintaining a vehicle like that is less costly to the environment than buying a new, more economical car every 3 years. If I don't need a new vehicle, why buy one? Regrettably, the rest of society seems to operate on a different ethereal plane. My own car I got 3 years ago. It was 7 years old at the time with 35k miles. Smelled like it had been sitting up in a hot garage for a while. This "new" car replaced a cherished 1993 Toyota 4x4, which had 173k miles. The truck was fine at the time and could even make long road trips without a whimper. Twas kinda uncomfortable though and I'm getting older. Young couple bought it. The husband put a lift kit and some mud tires on it--another used vehicle, almost 20 years old, still running and getting alot of love.

So that's my story. Buy used, take care of it, and it'll take care of you for a loooooong time.

Reduce...REUSE...recycle.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:29 am 
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http://climatecrocks.com/2012/06/20/nis ... omeowners/


The United States (general motors) was the first to come out with an electric production car called the impact or later on the EV1. General Motors had an excited crowd around the EV1 and then proceeded to kill it. Instead now we have the Japanese being the first to come out with an electric car that will power your home in an outage. We are being drug down by our fossil fuel wealth. It's time to kick them in the pants.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... s9GrRUkKsY
Here’s a little secret that Fox News does not get about renewable energy.

The image climate deniers would like to promote of the typical electric car/solar roof customer is that of the sandal wearing, tofu eating, lefty, socialist, green weenie. In fact, a good part of the early adopters are going to be from precisely the opposite end of the political spectrum. One of the major appeals of distributed generation, and the idea of producing one’s own energy, is the deeply embedded dislike and distrust Americans have for big business, big government, and big energy.

Tell the most hard core, right wing Tea Party member that there’s a way he or she can make their household more energy independent – more able to weather storms, blackouts, brownouts, or even terrorist attacks in a world of asymmetrical warfare, and they want to know more. This demographic is actually larger than the stereotypical green consumer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
... almost 20 years old, still running and getting alot of love.

So that's my story. Buy used, take care of it, and it'll take care of you for a loooooong time.

Reduce...REUSE...recycle.
The first few vehicles I have had met with tragic but non-crash ends (frozen/cracked block, arson, towed without knowledge and exceeded worth to pay storage fees...) but a Toyota Tercel I was given for helping someone make his film had the odometer flip twice in my care (2000K-3000K). It was replaced with more Tercels but all were too rusty to keep on the road for Saskatchewan's tough standards for cab air-tightness (in case of idling engine while stuck in deep snow... kills a lot of people here). Japan requires inspection yearly and a maximum of 16 inspections so all 17-year-old minitrucks are undrivable in Japan and sold at scrap metal prices in Japan. This is the source of these minitrucks so they are all close to 20 years old (and thus have no airbags and less-safe designs in terms of crashes).
renewable guy wrote:
General Motors had an excited crowd around the EV1 and then proceeded to kill it. Instead now we have the Japanese being the first to come out with an electric car that will power your home in an outage.
...
Tell the most hard core, right wing Tea Party member that there’s a way he or she can make their household more energy independent – more able to weather storms, blackouts, brownouts, or even terrorist attacks in a world of asymmetrical warfare, and they want to know more. This demographic is actually larger than the stereotypical green consumer.
I am installing 7 deep-cycle batteries to my minitruck along with LED headlights and signals. The result will be high-amperage power if I need it and low power for lights and electronics in my house until I bother with solar cells. My reasoning has always been independence but less for energy independence but rather anarchy... trying to pay as little in taxes (legally) by not needing to buy stuff/services/utilities (sales tax) and not needing to be making taxable income and living in low-land-tax locations with minimum utilities for the local government to build and maintain. Freedom must be fought for or it disappears via the old saying "use it or lose it."


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:09 pm 
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From Renewable Guy: "The image climate deniers would like to promote of the typical electric car/solar roof customer is that of the sandal wearing, tofu eating, lefty, socialist, green weenie. In fact, a good part of the early adopters are going to be from precisely the opposite end of the political spectrum. One of the major appeals of distributed generation, and the idea of producing one’s own energy, is the deeply embedded dislike and distrust Americans have for big business, big government, and big energy."
You hit me right on the head.
I drive a now not made Mercury Mariner 4WD Hybrid. I bought it because they gave me such a great trade in on my Tacoma Crew Cab TRO 4WD SR5 V6. This is the last year they are going to make the most popular SUV hybrid, the Ford Escape. Why?? It is popular, also comes with a real 4WD version ~30 mpg with plenty of room (well enough for a retired guy). Regenerative braking, etc.
I feel I am one of the lucky few who got the Mariner Hybrid 4WD. More of the Ford Escapes were made, and a person fairly nearby has one same color as mine! But they don't live in a solar house or have an Earthship, and had friggin' Obama stickers on!
I am a deep green ecologist and have known especially of overpopulation since 1967! I grew up hunting and fishing, inside nature, as I watched what had been the end of town on our hill become city as far as I could see as I grew up. Something was very wrong... Being a pilot for 30 years, I saw it from the air, too. Degradation. Cities turning to monstropolises of stupid overbreeding immigrants allowed in an already overpopulated country. Stupid overbreeding Americans increasing, too.
As a flight and ground teacher, I realized that a 20 point difference lower in IQ would effectively double learning time and expense. I saw schools dumbing down since the 1960s. Kids without the tools to work. Reverse discrimination. Degradation of America.
They can no longer understand ecology, moral values, the old American work ethic and patriotism. It is all sick that government workers now make 35 to 100% more than civilians. Bought for the next crooked election (restart the draft, now!). People too stupid, in general, to even feel the changes in their lives. Changes in my life.... +5.5*F, sunburn in 1/2 the time, crowds everywhere, foreigners everywhere, obesity everywhere, National Parks ruined, nice cities ruined, and vastly increased wildfires.
It is harder for them to understand the need for a change in life to low eco impact. I had one kid only, it wasn't that hard to do, but it took morals. I built my own solar house and Earthship(equipped with loud rock/blues/metal guitars, too), it was a lot of work and took concentration, are they afraid of that?? I drive a hybrid because it is my moral imperative. Americans have to get proper morals back. Let the failures starve to death. Enforce the laws and collect the fines, deport illegals. That is over a quadrillion dollars right there, and 20 million jobs. Don't stop production of the Ford Escape, Ford!!! Let non-union workers build them if the $40+/hour union slowpokes can't make you a profit!
Solution---get sustainable ASAP! [-X :mrgreen:

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Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:18 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Let the failures starve to death.


Remove all the warning labels and the problem works itself out.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Ok. I removed the warning labels but they just sit there. What were they sasposed to do?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
Bought aJeep grand cherokee for my wife then with 50-something thousand miles . It's got 188k now and still runs like a scalded dog. V8's are fun.

You might not think it so much fun if you had to pay UK prices for fuel.
And is there really any practical reason why your missus actually needs such a large an uneconomical vehicle?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:42 pm 
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renewable guy wrote:
Audi made history by winning the classic race in a diesel-hybrid car for the first time. A hybrid car uses two types of technology for energy; Audi also adopted an electric flywheel system devised by the Williams F1 team to help power the car.

I think the chief merit of a hybrid of this type is that it can harvest energy that would otherwise be dissipated in heat during braking.
There are two different KERS types deployed by F1 teams. The mechanical flywheel system taken from Williams and electrical storage.

As far as I'm aware, commercially available road cars use the electrical system. This makes sense. When crawling along in traffic, the idling IC engine is quite inefficient. Much more inefficient than electric propulsion.

Racing car engines don't idle.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Besoeker wrote:
Fosgate wrote:
Bought aJeep grand cherokee for my wife then with 50-something thousand miles . It's got 188k now and still runs like a scalded dog. V8's are fun.

You might not think it so much fun if you had to pay UK prices for fuel.


Then again, if I'm not making payments because the vehicle is cared for and used over a time span where most other folks would have had 3 or 4 newer cars...

As you can see, fuel is but one factor in this equation. Stand by for another.

Quote:
And is there really any practical reason why your missus actually needs such a large an uneconomical vehicle?


You nailed it--practicality. We haul stuff. Not big enough stuff to warrant a second truck, but large enough and often enough to warrant the extra utility. It's the same reason some use large dually pickups to haul horse trailers. You can't do it with a sub-compact. In the end, it beats making monthly payments on newer vehicles that suck additional natural resources from the earth unnecessarily.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
Bought aJeep grand cherokee for my wife then with 50-something thousand miles . It's got 188k now and still runs like a scalded dog. V8's are fun.

Besoeker wrote:
You might not think it so much fun if you had to pay UK prices for fuel.

Fosgate wrote:
Then again, if I'm not making payments because the vehicle is cared for and used over a time span where most other folks would have had 3 or 4 newer cars...
As you can see, fuel is but one factor in this equation.

But a factor nevertheless.
A gas guzzler is a gas guzzler. You pay for the fuel consumed. That doesn't change nor can be excused regardless of any other costs.


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And is there really any practical reason why your missus actually needs such a large an uneconomical vehicle?


Fosgate wrote:
You nailed it--practicality. We haul stuff. Not big enough stuff to warrant a second truck, but large enough and often enough to warrant the extra utility.

Then a van like a second hand Ford Transit with a straight four 2.0L Diesel would be a much more practical and economical proposition.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:32 am 
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Besoeker wrote:
But a factor nevertheless.


One that is overwhelmed by others, sure. I can make 3 round trips in the car at 30mpg vs. 1 in the Jeep at 20, if it will make you happy.

Quote:
A gas guzzler is a gas guzzler. You pay for the fuel consumed. That doesn't change nor can be excused regardless of any other costs.


Indeed. There are no free lunches. However, one can certainly pick the lesser of the combination of evils.

Quote:
Then a van like a second hand Ford Transit with a straight four 2.0L Diesel would be a much more practical and economical proposition.


I don't believe the diesel is an option in the US for this vehicle. It's reported mileage is only 21 city. That's 1 mile better than my Jeep and the Transit can't pull my trailer...at least, not with a load on it. What am I gaining here, other than a monthly note, reduced utility, and reduced safety? That's right, the crash scores are lower too.

If you're suggesting that I can do what I do now and get better mileage doing it, spare me, I know. I'll gladly do so if you're willing to cough up the investment yielding no significant compromise on any other variables.

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