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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:29 am 
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Ann Vole wrote:
tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Yes, they are outsourcing that research. :mrgreen:


Assumption.

this website lends a lot of support for that assumption

http://www.psgb.org/


Care to point out where? In the UK primates are used in vivisection but not higher primates. If you can provide a test study that was "contracted" out where chimps were used I may revise my opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:
tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Yes, they are outsourcing that research. :mrgreen:


Assumption.

this website lends a lot of support for that assumption

http://www.psgb.org/


tommee wrote:
Care to point out where? In the UK primates are used in vivisection but not higher primates. If you can provide a test study that was "contracted" out where chimps were used I may revise my opinion.



Not all research is vivisection, which is a bit of a movement in goalposts from what had been previously stated. Are you looking for research or invasive research now?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:57 pm 
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"I was under the impression that if a scientist wanted to use a specific animal for a medical experiment then provided the ethics committee agreed that it was apropriate and the budget was there he could do so without being restricted by blancket banns from central government."

I would have though you have intelligence enough to follow a thread with quoted text and a link quoting the ban on higher primates in medical research etc

If not you are sadder than I thought.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:23 pm 
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tommee wrote:
"I was under the impression that if a scientist wanted to use a specific animal for a medical experiment then provided the ethics committee agreed that it was apropriate and the budget was there he could do so without being restricted by blancket banns from central government."

I would have though you have intelligence enough to follow a thread with quoted text and a link quoting the ban on higher primates in medical research etc

If not you are sadder than I thought.


It seems that one of us has a problem with education and according to the medical dictionary it is you. As I noted, not all research is vivisection and neither are all medical experiments. The apes are often used for behavioral studies, whcih can be performed without the use of cutting into the animal.

I suppose that might make you sadder than you thought.

viv·i·sec·tion (vv-skshn, vv-sk-)
n.
The act or practice of cutting into or performing surgery on living animals for the purpose of scientific research.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

vivi·section·ist n.

The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Well as I have already pointed out, the quote was directed at the ban on higher primates in the UK.

If you have problems following then I suggest you move on.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:12 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Well as I have already pointed out, the quote was directed at the ban on higher primates in the UK.

If you have problems following then I suggest you move on.


I previously pointed out they used other nations as the outsource for the research, so now we have come full circle and you know research, medical or otherwise, is not always vivisection.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:16 pm 
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And the ban doesn't just cover vivisection and you are yet to support the claim the UK contract out work carried out on chims etc

Assumption.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:40 pm 
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tommee wrote:
And the ban doesn't just cover vivisection and you are yet to support the claim the UK contract out work carried out on chims etc

Assumption.


No, just knowledge of science. Every attempt to create a vaccine for Hep C, including the UK and Europe, will be related to the research on chimps performed where allowed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21198667

Prospects for prophylactic and therapeutic vaccines against the hepatitis C viruses.
Houghton M.

Source
Department of Medical Microbiology and Immunology, Li Ka Shing Institute of Virology, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. michael.houghton@ualberta.ca

Abstract
Encouraging efficacy data have been obtained in the hepatitis C virus (HCV) chimpanzee model using prophylactic vaccines comprising adjuvanted recombinant envelope gpE1/gpE2 glycoproteins or prime/boost immunization regimens using defective adenoviruses and plasmid DNA expressing non-structural genes. While usually not resulting in sterilizing immunity after experimental challenge, the progression to chronic, persistent infection (which is responsible for HCV-associated pathogenicity in human) is inhibited. These and other vaccine candidates are in clinical development for both prophylactic as well as possible therapeutic applications. Given that other vaccines tested in the chimpanzee model may be possibly increasing the rate of chronicity, it is very important that this model continues to be available and used prior to initiation of clinical development. Several vaccine monotherapy trials in chronically infected HCV patients are resulting in small declines in viral load, suggesting that in future, combining vaccination with antiviral drug treatment may be beneficial.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:49 pm 
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And what do we see in ther UK where such research does not happen? They are using the very same Chimp research as referenced in the Canadian article! How do you think the UK researchers came up with the same process as those Canadian researchers using chimps without the benefit of chimp research?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/239982.php

An experimental vaccine against the chronic liver disease hepatitis C has shown promising results in its first clinical trial in humans, say researchers from the University of Oxford, UK, who write about their findings in the 4 January online issue of Science Translational Medicine. However, they caution there is still a long way to go before we have an effective vaccine ready for clinical use.

<snip>

In their paper the researchers describe how they adapted two adenoviruses to carry NS (nonstructural) proteins from HCV genotype 1B. One adenovirus was sourced from a rare human serotype (Ad6, human adenovirus 6) and the other from chimpanzee (ChAd3, chimpanzee adenovirus 3).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:47 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
And the ban doesn't just cover vivisection and you are yet to support the claim the UK contract out work carried out on chims etc

Assumption.


No, just knowledge of science. Every attempt to create a vaccine for Hep C, including the UK and Europe, will be related to the research on chimps performed where allowed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21198667

The search for a vaccine for Hep C continues to rely on forced experimentation on chimps (they would not likely volunteer for such a position). Where is it allowed? Where is it actually happening? Gabon? Canada? Is this current?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:20 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
And the ban doesn't just cover vivisection and you are yet to support the claim the UK contract out work carried out on chims etc

Assumption.


No, just knowledge of science. Every attempt to create a vaccine for Hep C, including the UK and Europe, will be related to the research on chimps performed where allowed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21198667

The search for a vaccine for Hep C continues to rely on forced experimentation on chimps (they would not likely volunteer for such a position). Where is it allowed? Where is it actually happening? Gabon? Canada? Is this current?



The first paper was from 2011 and the second from 2012. The technology is very current.


Immunol Rev. 2011 Jan;239(1):99-108. doi: 10.1111/j.1600-065X.2010.00977.x.

Article Date: 07 Jan 2012 - 0:00 PST

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:39 am 
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tommee wrote:
The UK don't test on chimps :-k
tommee wrote:
"Research on great apes - chimpanzees, gorillas, bonobos and orang utans - was banned in the UK in 1998"
tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Yes, they are outsourcing that research. :mrgreen:

Assumption.
tommee wrote:
Ann Vole wrote:
this website lends a lot of support for that assumption

http://www.psgb.org/


Care to point out where?
The entire website is about non-governmental research using primates. They even provide grants and say that the small size of the grant is because it's purpose is to fund the search for more substantial funding for the intended research. Up until this point, vivisection had not entered the discussion. I will say that the ban you mentioned was for great apes in particular and there is no indication that the great apes are included in the primate research mentioned... but no mention that it is excluded either.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:56 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:


The first paper was from 2011 and the second from 2012. The technology is very current.


Immunol Rev. 2011 Jan;239(1):99-108. doi: 10.1111/j.1600-065X.2010.00977.x.

Article Date: 07 Jan 2012 - 0:00 PST


The ChAd3, chimpanzee adenovirus 3 was not developed by them and has been around for many years. They modifies the vaccine and thier work is done in a test tube..

So where is all this overseas testing on chimps contracted from the UK?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:58 am 
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Ann Vole wrote:
Up until this point, vivisection had not entered the discussion. [/quote]

Yes it was. Although the word vivisection was not used.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:04 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:


The first paper was from 2011 and the second from 2012. The technology is very current.


Immunol Rev. 2011 Jan;239(1):99-108. doi: 10.1111/j.1600-065X.2010.00977.x.

Article Date: 07 Jan 2012 - 0:00 PST


The ChAd3, chimpanzee adenovirus 3 was not developed by them and has been around for many years. They modifies the vaccine and thier work is done in a test tube..

So where is all this overseas testing on chimps contracted from the UK?


The specific modified vaccine was tested on chimp models according to the previous paper quoted on the subject.

Encouraging efficacy data have been obtained in the hepatitis C virus (HCV) chimpanzee model using prophylactic vaccines comprising adjuvanted recombinant envelope gpE1/gpE2 glycoproteins or prime/boost immunization regimens using defective adenoviruses and plasmid DNA expressing non-structural genes. While usually not resulting in sterilizing immunity after experimental challenge, the progression to chronic, persistent infection (which is responsible for HCV-associated pathogenicity in human) is inhibited. These and other vaccine candidates are in clinical development for both prophylactic as well as possible therapeutic applications.

<snip>

Given that other vaccines tested in the chimpanzee model may be possibly increasing the rate of chronicity, it is very important that this model continues to be available and used prior to initiation of clinical development.

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