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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:00 am 
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I sab in the US also, you have no clue what I know about hunting.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:28 am 
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tommee wrote:
I sab in the US also, you have no clue what I know about hunting.


I would say not that much from the sound of it.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:58 am 
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You will never know will you? :lolno:


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:17 pm 
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tommee wrote:
You will never know will you? :lolno:


To be honest, nor will I ever care. I just would not try to sab many of the US hunts as there are now laws prohibiting such things and some of the wildlife is downright dangerous.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:44 pm 
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You wouldn't but I do. I don't need your advice I do very well without it.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:52 pm 
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tommee wrote:
You wouldn't but I do. I don't need your advice I do very well without it.



Cool, I hope you are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and deported back to your place of origin.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 am 
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I was born in the USA!!! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:09 am 
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[quote="thomas"]I promote veganism and animal rights because I don't want the animals to suffer.

But we, as humans , suffer.


In my opinion it makes no difference why somebody is suffering. So some time ago I started thinking about wild living animals. Their suffering is something that seems almost completely ignored or forgotten by most animal rights activists. In my opinion it is one of the most important concerns. For a simple reason: there are much much more animals in the wild than in factory farms.

Are you aure about that? There are literally bilions of animals slaughtered in "factory farm" operations due to the beliefs that we hold .... that protein must be had by animals. Because there is the belief that one's protein must come from animals ... we end up farming them in untold numbers ... many more than could possibly be be harvested from the wild.

And nature is cruel. Animals in the wild suffer from many things like predation, disease, parasites, injuries, cold, starvation, stress and more. Many animals give birth to hundreds or thousands of offspring hoping a few of them live long enough to grow up fully.

Nature is nature. It is our interpretation that makes it cruel or not.

And humans also live a so called cruel life whereby babies die. In a way, it is not cruel at all. Nature is nature and our interperation of it deems it cruel or otherwise. It is an interpretation.

So what could be done to help them? Helping farm animals is relatively easy, go vegan and convince others of doing the same. But nature is very complex and very few people care about the suffering of wild living animals.

Wild animals? Not the issue! That there are farm animals is natural, in a way. It's just that "meat" is promoted for breakfast, lunch and dinner as a 'cultural norm' ..... as if "animal meat" is the WAY to get one's protein. This is a cuiltural f##k up! It's easy. It's convenient, and it tastes good. It's also how many of us provide a livlihood. But is it ethical?

So I think the best thing we can do today is to promote the idea that they also need our help (at least within the animal movement) and that helping them also belongs to animal rights. And then scientists, ecologists, biologists and other people will deal with that question and find the answers.

Do we need a movement of any kind? Must we rely on scientists, biologists, or animal rights people? Can we not find the answers for ourselves? There is an industry that is hell-bent on insisting that we all have bacon and sausages for breakfast. They are the people whose livelihood depends on bacon for breakfast and steak for dinner. They will, of course, fight you.

Our ethics concerning humans and human rights do not end with the abolition of slavery, so why should our ethics concerning animals?

Because animals do not construe their predicament in the same way that humans do. They do not consider themselves as slaves .... as we do. But we are ethical beings and the act of eating is not immoral or amoral. We must consider what we eat.

We sometimes eat animals because it is necessary... but to insist on eating animals as a dietary "must" is simply not true.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:37 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
We sometimes eat animals because it is necessary... but to insist on eating animals as a dietary "must" is simply not true.


Speaking naturally and of non-supplemented food, you have one dietary must that only animal products can fill and that is B-12. Either consume the animal or a product of the animal.

Also the concentrated protein in animals is the probable trigger for our position in the world of animals.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:12 am 
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tommee wrote:
I was born in the USA!!! :lol:



Me too!

But I was also born in Kenya.
And in Bolivia.
and Bosnia
and Canada and the UK
and Guatemala ... such a beautiful country!

I mean both!
I mean all of them.
I mean the entire planet.
It's a beautiful one.

There is much beauty, the world over.

And the USA is gorgeous too! Love it.

I just travelled throug British Columbia, Canada.
Shangra-la
Amazing beauty. Why go to the Hi
malayas when such beauty exists so close? ... and no guns ...
Safety and beauty.

Montains and lakes ... bring your canoe or kayak ....

Leave your gun and don't even lock your doors ...

Canada.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:32 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
We sometimes eat animals because it is necessary... but to insist on eating animals as a dietary "must" is simply not true.


Speaking naturally and of non-supplemented food, you have one dietary must that only animal products can fill and that is B-12. Either consume the animal or a product of the animal.

Also the concentrated protein in animals is the probable trigger for our position in the world of animals.[/quot


Or eat the dirt. Yum! So easy.
Or you could eat the animals. Apparantly not nececesary.
Except sometimes.
Ha! but as a norm .... this is a cultural belief. ie: Texas vs. wherever.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:41 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
We sometimes eat animals because it is necessary... but to insist on eating animals as a dietary "must" is simply not true.


Speaking naturally and of non-supplemented food, you have one dietary must that only animal products can fill and that is B-12. Either consume the animal or a product of the animal.

Also the concentrated protein in animals is the probable trigger for our position in the world of animals.



Or eat the dirt. Yum! So easy.
Or you could eat the animals. Apparantly not nececesary.
Except sometimes.
Ha! but as a norm .... this is a cultural belief. ie: Texas vs. wherever.


Dirt will not do it, but the animal feces in the fertilized dirt might help you out. That still is an animal product and one a lot of people would not want to consume because of the associated disease vectors.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:56 pm 
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There is the future suffering of homo sapiens from overpopulation that I have been trying to prevent since 1967. This particular mammal is supposedly intelligent yet depletes key resources and pollutes far beyond the biosphere's ability to absorb. As aquifers run dry and AGW effects get worse, and resources scarcer, the amount of food that can be used for this animal will decrease and its population will crash by 2050. The suffering of years of abject poverty, wars over water, malnutrition and diseases, thievery and cannibalism. Certainly more important than the suffering of lower animals. However, suffering hungry, thirsty, desperate humans will eat just about anything and even drink their own urine. Animal rights come in a distant place on the order of priorities list.
Increasing HGHGs to the point of the methane turnover tipping point we are at, being breached is far more important. If HGHGs are not lowered enough in time, it will end in a thermal maximum episode faster than life can adapt. This will be a near 90% of all species ELE. Do you ARs want that?? The most important thing you can do for animals is to reduce your eco-footprint with one or no kids, solar or wind power in a recycled/indigenous materials super insulated home, electric, pedal, or hybrid vehicle, compost including toilet, grow your own food as much as you can and buy locally. Having no pets except the wild animals around you also lowers that footprint.
So what are you ARs doing to prevent the coming thermageddon ELE??? What are you doing to mitigate the suffering of the coming human population crash?? You do care about humans, too, don't you???

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:12 pm 
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So what are you ARs doing to prevent the coming thermageddon ELE??? What are you doing to mitigate the suffering of the coming human population crash?? You do care about humans, too, don't you??? :razz: :razz: :razz: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:15 am 
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Thankfully, there are many great game farms that protect and conserve wildlife.


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