EnviroLink Forum

Dontar
A Vegan Fellow Named Bob
Carrie Hice
Cheerful Fawn
Love Canada Geese

some of the many animal rights or animal welfare people
who no longer post... because animal killers have taken over
the board

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Boycott Air Canada, Greyhound,
all Canadian tourism, products such as lumber, meat,
alcohol, fish until
sealclubbing is banned.
http://seashepherd.org/seals/seals.html
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=martha

This would be a great example of a non-sensical posting. What are you trying to prove? How does this message prove anything or help anyone else understand what you are talking about? Satan Jr does not HAVE any power here, how could he abuse it?!?

It's a shame that some people have decided to move on for one reason or another, but as I have repeatedly said, this forum is not a support group for pro/anti/neutral people. There are tons of those places to go online and that's where people should go if they need to be with people that agree with them all the time.

I have been doing EnviroLink since 1991 and I can tell you it has ALWAYS been a contentious place where people from all sides of issues (enviro and animal-related) have come together and debated. We ALWAYS have had conflicts, users butting heads, high user turnover, etc. This is not for everyone, which is fine by me.

If you think animal killers have taken over the board, then feel free to try to get as many of your anti animal killers together to actively participate the way that the people you would describe as animal killers do. Or, if that's not worth the effort and it is intolerable for you here, then feel free to leave. Either way, make a decision for yourself and don't flame out the entire board because of your personal decisions.

-josh

He could abuse it if he became a moderator.

Not debate and one example of many. This is why your site is classed as an animal rights bashing forum. A hand full of people who post do so just to bash ARAs. It seem you, Josh, are happy to let them carry on.
Probably why you animal concern site is not popular when you have a forum like this. Nothing wrong with dabate, below is not bebate.













http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1405

Just an attempt to cause trouble.

If you are not bothered and wish people to leave your forum then so be it.

I PM'd her about it before I found that she had already been mentioned, so she does know about it. I will let her speak for herself on the subject since she does get to post fairly regularly.

I have already PM'd you with my wishes on the screen name change so if it can be done, fine. If not I think I can start with a new name without a problem. I think those with which I have been discussing would know who I was ....

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With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

I think the three mentioned by Josh would be very fair.

Phantomuk, don't you want to stick around to see him abuse his powers if he gets any? Or is this just a way out?

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"Yes like I said it all boils down to morals. What you think is right doesn't make a person wrong because they think different " X-Black

I do not think it fair. SJ and Fos are Anti ARA so I do not see the balance met. They are also friends and from the PMs that have been mentioned it seems people have sorted the mods out in private.

Personal remark and attempts at insulting people because of their lack in articulating and spelling is also not what you would expect from a mod. SJ offten does this.

Not a good choice in my view and like I have said. If SJ becomes a mod then I do not want to be a part of it.

Okay, but almost everybody is on one side or the other. So wouldn't it be fair to have one of each?

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"Yes like I said it all boils down to morals. What you think is right doesn't make a person wrong because they think different " X-Black

To be clear on the PMs I did PM Ock and Sandra on the subject. I asked Ock if he were interested before I made any nominations as he had already been mentioned as acceptable by some of the more pro-AR folks. He declined but suggested two people, one of which was Sandra. I sent her a PM for the same reason, but then found out she had already been mentioned by ARC. To my knowledge the decision is Josh's and none of the people have been offered the position, but that is not information to which I am privy.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Satan Jr is now Wayne as per his request... I just hope he can log in now...

Ok... I actually think this is a good point, if a bit one-sided. Clearly folks on both sides of the AR issue have to agree that there is a lot of baiting and trouble-making from BOTH sides of the issue. A bit of joking, people getting pissed off at each other, etc. is inevitable, but I have heard a lot of complaints about the level to which it has been allowed to go.

I do not have the ability on my own to enforce a "try to be civil... really!" rule here, but with a good team of moderators (2-3 + me) and general agreement from users to raise the bar on the debates here, I think it could work. This means that those that consistently cross the line are going to be warned once or twice and then banned (doesn't matter which side of the debate you are on). It also means that EVERYONE needs to work together (not just moderators) to help new (and old) users to get with the program.

Are we willing to do this?

-josh

Sounds good to me.

I haven't posted on these forums for some time (though I have read through a number of threads from time to time)... 1) because I've been occupied elsewhere and 2) there's not been much point. The near complete lack of debate here has been repulsive and both sides (ARA's and anti-ARA's) are equally responsible. When the argument comes down to the size of one's genitals or a lack of them or a suggested activity for them, your argument is done and so is your credibility.

It's not merely the posting of pro-hunters or anti-ARA's that drives people from these forums. It IS the complete and utter disrespect and vulgar way in which people are treated. No matter who starts it, it always boils down to the same thing... a free-for-all with crap flying everywhere. AR supporters are just a guilty of this as anti-AR people are, if not more so.

In case it's never occurred to the AR supporters, being anti-AR does NOT make one anti-AW. You gain no respect for your position on any side of the argument by behaving worse than the animals you profess to support or show concern for. Until you can make your case without making incivility the soapbox on which you stand you'll contribute nothing and convince no one that your cause it just. You can't beat people into following your path. You can't gain marked effort it your cause of animal rights as long as man disregards the rights of other men... period!!

I will also say that when I joined this forum, the habit (which hasn't changed too much) was to jump people and make assumptions on who they are and what they believe. I suppose that should be expected on a sometimes volatile forum such as this. However, when it's clear that it's a young person posting a concern, a point of view, a question... it is disgusting to see the snide and/or nasty comments of the attack commence. Being on the receiving end of that was (and is) disconcerting and daunting, to say the least. It's clear that many join this site for the sole purpose to inflame and get a good dig in at another. Being a troll is regarded as sport by some who only seek to see how long it takes for them to be banned. A moderator is a necessary thing on a board such as this for that reason alone. That said, and even though Satan Jr (as has been admitted by him... to some degree) certainly has given just cause to being called a "meanie", I feel he has also (on occasion) been able to admit when he has posted with less accuracy or understanding. That's an important point for one who will be selected to moderate these forums. For that reason I support Satan Jr (hopefully renamed something less connected to "evil") being selected for the job. I also support Sandra as a co-moderator for the same reason. Should whoever Josh chooses prove that they cannot do the job in an equal and responsible way, I have full faith that he can, and will, recognize this and take the appropriate action.

LSBF

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Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little. ~Edmund Burke

Sounds good, Josh.

And it's good to see you back Luna, especially with such an insightful post as that.

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"Yes like I said it all boils down to morals. What you think is right doesn't make a person wrong because they think different " X-Black