EnviroLink Forum

I guess it's because I spent the better portion of my adult life on the right of the political spectrum that I never heard of Howard Zinn until about five years ago....and I'm trying to catch up now. But, it wasn't just the right who shunned him. He couldn't really be found on any mainstream media programs or newspapers. A couple years ago, former NY Times foreign correspondent - Chris Hedges informed us that the MSM will tolerate critics as long as they work within the system. Once a critic gets so radical that they go beyond suggesting tweaks to the dials and question the legitimacy of the political and economic system itself, then they are disappeared from mainstream media and relegated to talking to foreign media and fringe media in the U.S. Hedges is another prime example.

And what Howard Zinn says is very true, because war is nothing more than state-sponsored terrorism, usually conducted by regimes with overwhelming arms and sophisticated technology. The leaders can pretend that they are going to war to spread democracy and overthrow dictators, but the money trail informs us that there are huge financial interests taken advantage of by all of the corporations who are swimming in the U.S.A.'s wake, and swoop in when the fighting dies down to take control of valuable natural resources. And terrorism is asymmetrical warfare carried out by nations or armed groups who are at such a great disadvantage, they seek out ways to scare a rich military empire into spending billions...if not trillions of dollars to fight the terrorist threat, and dissolve virtually all of their guaranteed rights and freedoms in the process. In that regard, the terrorists were very successful!

The USA is a commercial empire that uses its vast overwhelming military force to leverage on behalf of major corporations -- some of which aren't even based in America, which makes this game of international hegemony even more confusing! But the main game appears to be - the U.S. supplies the muscle, and the plutocrats supply the cheap, sweatshop labor-produced consumer goods for the American Market, and support for the U.S. Dollar to keep extending the line of credit to buy all that garbage.

And the USA cannot make a legitimate claim to being anti-terrorism when the U.S. sponsored the Contra narco-terrorists in Central America, who were even allowed to finance their operations through drug deals that put cocaine right on the streets of major American cities back in the 80's. Many of these drug lords that the U.S. is fighting now in their War ON Drugs, got their start as so called anti-communist forces. Check the archives at http://www.consortiumnews.com/1990s/consor30.html some time.

And re: a previous issue -- for what it's worth, New York politics (Democrat and Republican) are rife with IRA supporters....everyone from Patrick Moynihan to Ed Koch went out making speeches and hosting fundraisers on behalf of IRA front groups.

Remember, when they serve America's interests they are freedom fighters, when they are threats to American interests, they are terrorists! And as we've seen with Afghanistan for example, the same groups can drift from one category to the other over time.

Now you know everyone that thought otherwise before the last judge ruled was overreacting.



…or elect someone else who will.



The only thing that concerns me is that someone was hospitalized for an overreaction. That it ultimately took more than one judge to figure that out is concerning as well, but immaterial. If there was something substantial, he’d still be in custody.



Some of the changes, yes, not that I’d mind a course of action that effectively reduces the magnitude that much if doing nothing maintains an Oklahoma City-grade baseline.







No, the last judge did that despite whatever information there was.



Not at all. Wig out at any and all opportunities.



I don’t. I guess we should evaluate everyone who’s ever made similar statements.



Steam, and I’m hardly interested in creating the perfect system. That’s a bogus argument and you know it. At the same time, I’m not interested playing it safe with criteria that is nearly impossible to validate in the first place.



Medication overdose—a concrete action demonstrating sole intent to harm or kill oneself. I’d say such actions, in addition to those that place others in immediate physical danger, necessitate intervention in any case, would you not? I’m willing to except high-risk sporting activities, including NASCAR.



If one judge trumps another, the trumped one is just as good as wrong in their interpretation of whatever evidence there is.



Ranged weapons weren’t what got the guy in trouble. That was his…er…computer and internet. Yeah, that was it.



Good sense, perhaps. I do realize it’s not that common anymore.



Wow, everyone? I thought we were just concerned with those who talked smack.

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TANG SOO!

No, just the people who, like yourself, have leaped to a conclusion without having any information other than the defense attorney's statements in the media or communication with the people who made the decision.



Assuming there IS a better alternative, which is a big assumption.



Not really as Tim Mcvey did not make some of the statements this guy did and he was the worst domestiv terrorist ever. If McVey had been reported you would have supported him as being an overreaction too.



Not really, judges can make any decision they feel is justified discounting evidence accordingly. There was substanial evidence against OJ and he was released. It is not a perfect system in any case.



Well, having a few more Oklahoma incidents is not what I would accept.







The first ones did not. What makes the one correct and the others not in this case?



Compare the statements to those of McVey and tell me which sounds worse to you.



I beleive they are if they are reported.



No, it is the reality with which we have to deal. Either we try to prevent the people like McVey or we do not. You seem to be saying not.



So we wait until they show up in a theater or street corner and start shooting people or maybe just blow up a small building first.




So if they appeal it againa and that judge were to side with the first judge you would not hava problem? Other than taking so long to make a determination.



WE are trying to prevent the use of fire, explosions, and other such weapons BEFORE people start getting hurt not after.



That is clear given the stand some of you have taken. I would love to see you explain to the survivors of some of the other attacks how it is only "good sense" to wait until there is a concrete threat seen.



Not everyone talks smack before they do something like this. Look how long the Unabomber took to identify because he was quiet in identified communication.

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With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

I will never accept unvalidated methods, no matter how well-meaning they are, in place of a proven measurement/detection system. You'll have to show something other than peace of mind as a benefit to get my attention.

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TANG SOO!

Good luck with that in the realm of human interaction.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Thanks. Human behavior is a challenging frontier. Us operations folks are already butting heads over it with the environmental health and safety groups. Some things you just can't solve unless the human factor is removed, which of course is an option if one is willing to pay for automation.

Speaking of which, I'd prefer a world like Surrogates over Minority Report.

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TANG SOO!

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I use red, not because of anger but to define my posts to catch rebuttals latter and it makes the quote feature redundent for me. The rest of you pick your own color.

Life is a time capsule we strive to fill with precious memories.

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I can have oodles of charm....... when I want to.

Another "arrest" without charges and a waste of money?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11480190/

Raleigh, N.C. — A North Carolina State University student was involuntarily committed last month for mental health treatment after confessing to campus police that he had planned to going on a killing spree, according to a court document.

Campus police checked on the student on July 17 after his girlfriend told officers she was worried about his well-being.

The student, a former Marine sniper who served two tours of duty in Iraq, told officers that he was depressed and had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and bipolar disorder.

<snip>

Campus police shared the information with Wake County prosecutors, but authorities said an investigation turned up no real threat.

The student was taken to the VA Hospital in Durham for treatment.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

after confessing to campus police that he had planned to going on a killing spree,

Uh, not quite comparable to the other incident.

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I can have oodles of charm....... when I want to.

What's the data say?

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TANG SOO!

Only that he was more cooperative with the investigation. No other aspects changed. An uncooperative person would tend to be more of a risk in such an investigational situation.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

No threat therefore a waste of money correct?

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Sure sounds like it.

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TANG SOO!