EnviroLink Forum

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With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

You do realise I am mainly talking about the arctic and antarctic don't you, that would mean that they are local to their respective selves eliminating the error you seem to believe I am making. Yet everyone is going on about how important the arctic is to the global temperature and how it affects it, yet the evidence shows that while the arctic ice is sensitive it is not unusual in what we are currently seeing and in fact if the sensitivity of the climate is as great as we have been led to believe those local temperatures would be much higher than they currently are with the amount of CO2 or other GHG, the same goes for the antarctic. So if we have what could be classed as normal activity for the poles because of the evidence with their importance in the climate system, then the rest of the climate on a global scale is normal with some local anomolies due to change in land use and not CO2 or other GHG.


You also slated the research from the source of what is used by the likes of the IPCC to push a GW agenda through to human interaction with the atmosphere being the sole cause and yet the research is direct from the horses mouth so to speak instead of some second hand reconstructed research by someone who hasn't even been there.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

"Ice core data from the last glacial period in Greenland show that change at that time could proceed rapidly - with several increases of more than 10ºC within a decade to possibly one to two years (Fig. 3.13); comparable changes in Antarctica were much slower."
Chapter 3
Antarctic climate and environment history in the pre-instrumental period

Have to post it again, the ANDRILL team that wrote that paper thought it important enough to break it down to "within a decade to possibly one to two years" and they must have got that from somewhere, and the logical place is the team at the other end of the earth in the more sensitive ice covered pole.
The IPCC thought it important enough to declare it to "Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC 2001a) concludes that warming may have occurred at rates as large as 10 °C/50 years for a significant part of the Northern Hemisphere at this time"

and so on.

Yet you are saying they are wrong on this, yet with everything else they are right because they also talk about current CO2 and GHGs which is where the crux of the argument about human influence on arctic ice and temperature comes from, and from that a large part of the argument about human released ghgs and global temperatures.

When talking about error you make it sound like these guys don't know what they are doing, yet they claim it is within 50 years and that is a pretty narrow margin over a long period of time, and yet if we have had such an impact on the climate up till now we have only seen small temperature rises in comparison to natural ones in the past in those senistive regions.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

To take you a little further back in your quote, they used the isotope O18 in the ice core, not gases such as CO2, might want to go back and check about it.

So these people that do all this work at both poles who are specialists in their respective fields from atmospheric/biological/ice/geology (as basic examples) and hold PhDs and have had for many years or are doing their Thesis as cheap labour as part of the team and are relied upon by the IPCC and every other climate driven body and organisation that spread the gospel of CO2 and human influence have all of this wrong.

Sorry then but that completely blows any discussion about Human induced warming through the release of GHGs out of the window, in fact you can strap it to an apollo rocket and fire it in the general direction of pluto and wave goodbye, then they all need to be fired and any work they have done over the last 20-30 years for some of them has to be discredited.

What a bunch of DENIALIST HOGWASH!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLYqzIhhT6o

You need some basics.

http://populationpress.org/2012/09/07/c ... an-finsen/

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Wayne, before I comment again about the graph data you cite which clearly states O18 is part of the result in your quote, I am reading the 555 page document you linked to, . Some of the scientists that wrote it are the same as the ones involved in other research I have read about, and currently on page 98 of Antarctic Climate Change and the Environment, after waking at 6.30 this morning it is going to take me a while to read it as I would like to know the full context of the paper.

The problem with your second quote about the US ITASE cores is that it does not declare what is being tested for the proxies, is it gases or O18/O16 concentrations or is it pirates, so till I have read this paper and then checked the 2nd paper this has to be set aside for now, have to earn money else the misses will kick my butt.


You claim that innacurate data is not useless, I would have to disagree and believe that the scientific community would have stripped the papers and funding would have been stopped till either the scientists were replaced or they changed their approach. Neither of those things have happened and they are busy doing what they do best again and taking another core I believe.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/rese ... diffusion/

Diffusion: The limit to δ18O-based ice core dating
Snow is slowly compressed into ice in the upper 80 meters of an ice sheet (read more about the process here). During this process, water vapour can move relative to the ice in the open pores between the snow grains, thereby smoothing the annual δ18O cycles. This diffusion process smoothes the δ18O signal and even erases the annual signal if the annual layers are thinner than 15-20 cm. In ice cores from sites with less than 15 cm of precipitation (measured in equivalents of compacted ice, not snow) per year, the annual cycle in δ18O will be obliterated, and dating based on annual δ18O oscillations is therefore not possible. This is the case for areas in north-eastern Greenland where the annual precipitation rate is significantly lower than 20 cm. For ice cores drilled in areas with about or slightly more than 20 cm of precipitation, diffusion will also blur the annual cycles, but it is possible to retrieve the annual cycle using diffusion correction techniques.

Very slow diffusive processes also take place deeper in the ice sheets. These processes slowly weaken the annual δ18O oscillations as the ice gets older and the layers thin due to the flow of ice.

Due to the diffusion processes, the limit of safe annual layer detection using δ18O / δD measurements is about 8500 years ago in the DYE-3 ice core. More favourable conditions at the summit of the Greenland ice sheet has permitted successful identification of annual layers from δ18O data in more than 14,000 year old ice from the GRIP ice core, while the NGRIP and NEEM ice cores cannot in general be dated using δ18O data alone.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein