[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4688: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4690: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4691: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4692: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
EnviroLink Forum • View topic - Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

EnviroLink Forum

Community • Ecology • Connection
It is currently Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:48 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 485 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 ... 33  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:01 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5791
Location: USA

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:24 am 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Delhi , India
There were two major switch-overs in human history.........Hunter_Gatherer Stage to Agrarian Stage........And Agrarian Stage to Industrial Stage.

Hunter_Gatherer Society was least destructive.......Agrarian Society was hundreds / thousands times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.

The first switchover may very well be excused but not the second one.......When man switched over from Hunter_Gatherer Stage to Agrarian Stage he was not aware of the small size of our planet and the limited resources it contained........But when man switched over from Agrarian Stage to Industrial Stage it was sheer lunacy of people who started and promoted Industrial Activity all over the world despite having a fair knowledge of the small size of planet and the limited natural resources it contains.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:07 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2588
Location: Central Colorado
Many resources were known to be running out and that humans were overpopulated, back when I did my initial research in 1967. We only had a small idea then of just how destructive humanity was. Global warming was just a theory, we had plenty of room for landfills, and the oceans seemed like nearly infinite trash dumps. "Silent Spring" was a warning to only a few. "The Population Bomb" had wildly inaccurate predictions because the author did not consult actual field and lab studies of mammal populations like I did, and merely completed the initial hyperbolic curve, then based everything on that. So science took a hit which has reverberated down through time.
People did not go to two child families when that would have worked. They did not go to one child families when that would have worked. They mistrusted climate science with global warming predictions until now we only have 7 years left to stop burning fossil fuels and slash and burn agriculture 90%. Any industry would have to be powered by non-emissions sources. Most emissions producing industrial farming and distribution has to end, meaning food must be grown without emissions producing machinery and locally.
They will not do it in time, so it goes beyond the politically correct worst case scenarios to a biosphere near destroying planetary reaction. A return, after the population die off, to hunter/gatherer and some agrarian society conditions, with a little high technology thrown in. Unfortunately, the positive feedback loops of increasing open water at the North Pole and self-release of tundra, followed and with by ocean warming and release of methane hydrates there, deeper and deeper. Higher and higher temperatures, far beyond the politically correct rose colored glasses with blinders worst case scenario, to a thermal maximum geological event with massive ELE, like but worse than 55 million years ago. Probably not the runaway greenhouse effect which would happen if all the fossil fuel had time to be burned before the population crash. That would preclude life ever again on Earth, eventually. But the preventable population crash and AETM will be bad enough, and our own species wiped out with most others.
We could have industrialized to a certain extent without fossil fuels and their emissions, using solar power, batteries, and wind and tidal power. We had all this knowledge that could have lead to knowing sustainable limits and staying within them. Even before coal came into common usage and with it the cheap energy stimulus to population and industrialization with depletion beyond replenishment and pollution beyond absorption, some societies had become overpopulated with smaller body weight as a result from primitive industrialization. The use of charcoal and water wheels, the making of metal plows to over dig the soil and harnesses to domesticated animals to increase food production. China and India were overpopulated way before other parts of the world. Even Europe had become overpopulated by 1500 or so and people migrated to get relief.
Still, the real stimulus to modern global problems was fossil fuels. First coal, then oil. You can not forget that technology and modern medicine played a big part, for they had increased rapidly, too. Without being able to wipe out predators, including diseases, the infant mortality would have remained high and people would have shorter lives. They did not then reduce family size rapidly enough. Greed made it so they used resources hundreds to many thousands of times their replenishment rates, and lust kept them over-breeding, while sloth allowed them to uncaringly pollute hundreds of times absorption rates.
Having something that could take them across continents in just hours, and product after newer product to indulge their every whim, was intoxicating. People were drunk on too much food, too much water, too much cheap fuel, and industrial ruin was ignored. I suppose that is a kind of insanity that has universally gripped mankind to the point of massive denial, and inaction to change before it is too late. Now it is the insanity of ecocide, as the biosphere slowly crumbles with depletion and pollution. Even the long term cosmic/planetary processes that caused the ice ages for the past 5 million years or more are overcome by human pollution effects. The Sixth Great Extinction caused by humans and not an asteroid strike. A little slower, but still a blink of the eye, geologically.

"The story of life is quicker than the blink of an eye.
The story of love is hello and goodbye,
Until we meet again." Jimi Hendrix, the day before his death.

Still, life will go on, the biosphere will heal. Until our Sun goes Nova.
Then the Universe will go on, our solar system and life on Earth, just a blink in time.

Eternity is waiting, for you and me.
I'm going to sing my song, and sing it all day long, a song that never ends. (Mike Pinder)
:-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|=

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:12 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5791
Location: USA
This one reminded me of sushi. I wouldn't say industrial society, however, as much as I would urban.


NYC mayor wants hospitals to lock up baby formula to encourage breast-feeding

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07 ... z226i83vae

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:40 am 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Delhi , India
............................................................................
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
............................................................................

A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity

One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Height of Insanity and Abnormality.

People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.

It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.

People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.

It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.

.
.

Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

.
.

What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.

All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.

.
.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

How can environment ever be saved in Industrial Society when Industrial Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction....Environment can only be saved in a Non-Industrial Society.

Industrial Society has created hundreds of unnecessary / futile occupations to solve the problems created by Industrialization.....Environmental Activism is one of them.....If thousands of organizations and millions of activists are trying to save environment in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved…..There have been three human societies on earth .....Hunter_Gatherer, Agrarian and Industrial.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society there was no Urban Population, entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian Society less than 2% of population was Urban, Most of the population was engaged in producing food.....In Industrial Society 50% of world population is producing food for entire population , the remaining 50% population is Urban which has created hundreds of unnecessary occupations to keep itself occupied..... People would go crazy without work…. Environmentalism / Environmental Activism is one such profession [occupation]......[Other unnecessary and destructive professions in Industrial Society include Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and several other jobs]....No Environmentalism was needed in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Societies because in the absence of Industrial Activity only limited destruction of environment was possible, so environment got saved automatically.

If billions of pages of environmental discussion is taking place in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved......Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.....Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion.....They didn't even have a language for discussion…..Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

.
.

If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

Urban Population is engaged in Unnecessary Work, Meaningless Work, Futile Work and Destructive Work which has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth.

For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".

.
.

Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..They all destroy environment......All Industrial Activity must be stopped.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.

.
.

This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.

Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.

Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.

Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.

There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.

Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.

Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.

Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.

In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.

In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.

This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:55 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2588
Location: Central Colorado
I tend to agree with you Sushy. After the population crash, urban areas will be mostly dead, and society will be mainly medieval non-industrial. There may be a few oil wells working and coal mines and coal fired small industry, plus PV powered small industry and the old water wheels for mills again. Some places will be more stone age while others remain high tech.
It is getting too late to stop the fossil fuel, and slash and burn emissions, from passing the tipping point of unstoppable methane turnover. Humanity has 7 years left to shut it down and has too much inertia to change that quick.
The Earth could have supported X1 number of people at a hunter/gatherer/agrarian status, and X2 amount with limited industry. The amount was finite, but people passed X2 in 1804 and X1 around 1924. Since then, resource depletion has been 100 times replenishment or more (500K times for fossil fuels), and pollution has been up to, or more, than 1,000 times the natural systems' absorption ability. The extinction rate began to rise above 'normal background' 11K years ago with the invention of the Folsom Point large spear heads, inventions to throw small spears farther and faster, and widespread use of the bow and arrow. These hunter gatherers also ran entire herds of buffalo over cliffs when they could only use a few before they rotted. It didn't get worse because their numbers were held in check by diseases, wars with other tribes, and starvation in bad years.
The first agrarians learned the hard way about soil depletion(and food storage to last through bad years), and some learned to fallow and compost to rebuild soils. The thing about both is that they did not use fossil fuels or water, although they could have at their respective regeneration rates(i.e. slowly).
Maximum sustainable long term population was lower than the short term sustainable even then. Besides wars, diseases, and starvation episodes, they still had some predators that got through, and some tribes did have herbal contraceptives.
The invention of the water wheel allowed over sustainable long term populations in Asia, then Europe. Sailing ships could forage further for food, but much would rot. The steamship changed that, and brought food upriver, too.
The rise toward a population crash started then. Technology helped push it along (including medical technology)and the technology to drill fossil oil and water stimulated the population more while fossil fuel pollution increased.
In reality, the number of humans was over sustainable long term without technology or industry hundreds of years before X2(one billion). The hunter gatherer/agrarian society, to be sustainable, had to forgo the technology learned that caused extinctions of major food animals and depletion of resources. The wisdom that spawned invention should have always remained tempered by knowledge of nature and long term thinking of consequences possible and unforeseen. People are/were not wise enough.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:55 pm 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:54 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Hamilton, Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:31 pm 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 94
Location: Ozarks - With the Rednecks
How could we function without an industrial society? We need to produce, it's a human desire. But in order to really do anything about it, we probably all need to become Amish. Well, that doesn't sound too good, so we could just curb our spending appetite.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:19 am 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Delhi , India


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:11 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2588
Location: Central Colorado
Here is the world population explosion map;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZPk2quR ... re=related

It is easy to see it started in India and China. Agrarian societies with technology of water wheels and irrigation led to over long term sustainable population. Then Southern Mexico/Central America. Only well after did it spread to "the west" or Europe. Then other places, until now the inhabitable and uninhabitable regions of the planet are way over sustainable long term for each region.
It is overcrowded society that destroys the mind and environment. Sure, with time, the negative ecological trait of crowd tolerance sets in, but the crowds grow further with more demands on the soil water on the surface and underneath, the oceans, and the non-renewable and renewable resources. The overcrowding leads to anxiety disorders, crime and anti-social disorders, depressive illnesses and increased hostility.
Sushy, you are suffering from this, and making excuses for India and its long term gross overpopulation. Both India and China have large areas of no carbon left in the soils, and dwindling aquifers with horribly polluted rivers. India with a too high to survive TFR of 2.6, and China still going up with momentum. Both areas increasing consumption and pollution.
Coal was used in China before Europe. China invented gunpowder which increased the extinction rate and reduced predators even more than bows and arrows and large spears. Both places have a long history of poverty, starvation episodes, and disease outbreaks from crowding. China also had wars which depopulated, while India had developed over-tolerance and over-compassion ways of life, which spread, reducing hostility and anxiety, for a while. Now, even the crowd tolerant are going nuts with the "industrial society", the fast paced techno-society, and mainly the even more crowded conditions with heavy pollution.
You philosophize that a hunter gatherer society could not overpopulate the planet, when even then, especially with the technology of the bow and arrow and large spears, there is a limit. In that phase, it was at the long term sustainable limit probably 3000 years ago. Technology without thought to future consequences, or just widespread ignorance, was a force toward going over limits of natural replenishment and regeneration/recharge. This led to first area industrialization, then spread globally, using resources ever faster with its and technology's increases. If people would have first recognized limits and natural renewal rates, and had a philosophy of thinking ahead a number of generations on consequences, then they would have stayed close to long term sustainable and not had the problems of over-crowding. Technology would have been wisely used and industrialization kept to a small amount.
Instead, base instincts of greed, lust, and selfishness ruled with short sightedness and ignorance of natural systems. Crowd tolerance was allowed to develop, making it worse. Human failings have led to this out of control overpopulation to crash and pollution to ecocide.

Hey, sushi, you should get together with arpad fekete (AF2)

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:26 pm 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:54 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Hamilton, Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:00 pm 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:54 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Hamilton, Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:38 pm 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:54 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Hamilton, Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:00 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2588
Location: Central Colorado
There isn't enough time to prevent #1) the population crash, and #2) passing the tipping points of open water ocean self warming and tundra methane self release (both positive feedback loops to AGW). No techno fixes that would or could be implemented in the little time left. About a third of the environment destroying AGW is from slash and burn low tech non-industrial agriculture, the other two thirds is from fossil fuel burning.
The overcrowding started around 1000AD in India, China and southern Mexico/Central America, then die off from unmaintained canals in Maya country (like even earlier in Mesopotamia), and die off from diseases in China and India, and warfare in China. In those two places the recoveries were rapid. All before colonization or the "Enlightenment".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZPk2quR ... re=related


It is easy to see it started in India and China. Agrarian societies with technology of water wheels and irrigation led to over long term sustainable population. Then Southern Mexico/Central America. Only well after did it spread to "the west" or Europe. Then other places, until now the inhabitable and uninhabitable regions of the planet are way over sustainable long term for each region.
It is overcrowded society that destroys the mind and environment. Sure, with time, the negative ecological trait of crowd tolerance sets in, but the crowds grow further with more demands on the soil water on the surface and underneath, the oceans, and the non-renewable and renewable resources(and the madness returns). The overcrowding leads to anxiety disorders, crime and anti-social disorders, depressive illnesses and increased hostility.
The psychologists are often ignorant of the human overcrowding syndrome, which is described in the last sentence above.
Perhaps, in the case of some, it is the industrialization that is the last straw for their sanity. With others, the high paced urban grid locked world. The real base cause is overpopulation in a relatively confined area, or overcrowding. The Mayans went mad and died off, and weren't industrialized. The earlier overcrowded China and India(both with limited industrialization) had their conflicts and problems of overcrowding and developed religio-cultural temporary fixes, and genetically developed crowd tolerance, which is being overcome. Other places, people got used to the crowd, but as the crowd doubled, lost that tolerance, too. People are fleeing monstropolises as the world gains 203K people per day. Then the places they flee to get over crowded, too, eventually. More and more anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs make it into waterways, while hostility, barely contained, rankles more people.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:43 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5791
Location: USA

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 485 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 ... 33  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group