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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:27 am 
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Quote:
it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.


Huh? Even your Saint Bernanke calls inflation a tax.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:45 am 
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SiberD wrote:
Quote:
it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.


Huh? Even your Saint Bernanke calls inflation a tax.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY


I would not leap to such a conclusion given the way the response was quickly cut off in editing. I tend to wonder what the context was for the statement which migh have been a bit different if the whole statement were given.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:32 pm 
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I guess he is trying to win the election 53% to 47%!!!
AF "People actually believe they are entitled to food! A roof! Medicine! ..... No way. How dare they?" :x
Yeah, most people have to actually work and sacrifice to pay for housing, food and medicine,
and REAL MEN build their own Earthships, all trades, and grow food, compost, all solar electric,
and fight off those who would try to steal, with semi-auto guns and fixed bayonets. :mrgreen:
The lesser of evils is Romney.
I would much rather have Theodore Roosevelt back. \:D/ :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:56 pm 
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[quote="Johhny Electriglide"]I guess he is trying to win the election 53% to 47%!!!
AF "People actually believe they are entitled to food! A roof! Medicine! ..... No way. How dare they?" :x
Yeah, most people have to actually work and sacrifice to pay for housing, food and medicine,

That's what they're doing.

http://front.moveon.org/what-if-47-of-a ... /?rc=fb.rp


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:24 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
Quote:
it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.


Huh? Even your Saint Bernanke calls inflation a tax.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY



The rest of the statement:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul526.html

Mr. BERNANKE. Congressman, I couldn't agree with you more that inflation is a tax and that inflation is currently too high, and it is a top priority of the Federal Reserve to run a policy that is going to bring inflation to an acceptable level consistent with price stability as we go forward. I would make one distinction, which is that what the Federal Reserve can control is the increase in prices on the average, over the overall basket of consumer goods and services. The enormous jumps in oil prices and other commodity prices are to some extent at least due to real factors out of the control of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve cannot create another barrel of oil. It is the global supply and demand conditions which are affecting those particulars things to the most significant extent, but to the extent that the Fed does have influence on the overall inflation rate, you are absolutely right that it is very important to maintain price stability, and I take that very seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Quote:
And the economy that relies on credit to function.


Wayne, you do realize that credit = debt, right? And you think that is a good thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Quote:
it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.


Huh? Even your Saint Bernanke calls inflation a tax.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY



The rest of the statement:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul526.html

Mr. BERNANKE. Congressman, I couldn't agree with you more that inflation is a tax and that inflation is currently too high, and it is a top priority of the Federal Reserve to run a policy that is going to bring inflation to an acceptable level consistent with price stability as we go forward. I would make one distinction, which is that what the Federal Reserve can control is the increase in prices on the average, over the overall basket of consumer goods and services. The enormous jumps in oil prices and other commodity prices are to some extent at least due to real factors out of the control of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve cannot create another barrel of oil. It is the global supply and demand conditions which are affecting those particulars things to the most significant extent, but to the extent that the Fed does have influence on the overall inflation rate, you are absolutely right that it is very important to maintain price stability, and I take that very seriously.


AHAHAHA! And you believe that tripe that the FED is running a policy to bring inflation to an acceptable level? And nothing in that statement changes his agreement that inflation is a tax.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:03 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
Quote:
And the economy that relies on credit to function.


Wayne, you do realize that credit = debt, right? And you think that is a good thing?


You seem to know very little about business and cash flow. Unless one deals with consumers on a direct cash basis there is a delay in cash flow. With such delays there is the need for short term loans or lines of credit to deal with normal operations. There is also the need for capital for expansion. So, yes, credit is a good thing because nearly every business has to have some type of credit to operate.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Quote:
it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.


Huh? Even your Saint Bernanke calls inflation a tax.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY



The rest of the statement:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul526.html

Mr. BERNANKE. Congressman, I couldn't agree with you more that inflation is a tax and that inflation is currently too high, and it is a top priority of the Federal Reserve to run a policy that is going to bring inflation to an acceptable level consistent with price stability as we go forward. I would make one distinction, which is that what the Federal Reserve can control is the increase in prices on the average, over the overall basket of consumer goods and services. The enormous jumps in oil prices and other commodity prices are to some extent at least due to real factors out of the control of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve cannot create another barrel of oil. It is the global supply and demand conditions which are affecting those particulars things to the most significant extent, but to the extent that the Fed does have influence on the overall inflation rate, you are absolutely right that it is very important to maintain price stability, and I take that very seriously.


SiberD wrote:
AHAHAHA! And you believe that tripe that the FED is running a policy to bring inflation to an acceptable level? And nothing in that statement changes his agreement that inflation is a tax.


He was trying deal with the tripe coming from a member of a Congressional Committee ..... and that says a lot about the "agreement".

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
HeritageFarm wrote:
Only if you want there to be supply. If you let the free market take care of itself, oil prices would go up, people would consume less, and other prices would (somewhat) stay the same.


If you ignore that whole transportation issue that is included in the cost and thus the sale price if there is to be a profit. Of course, in a theoretical true free market the price is always as high as can be made so the only impact would be the lowering of profit.

And yet the price is still high. So supposedly the government is supposed to keep costs down? The only to keep costs down is to subsidize them, which transfers the cost onto the public.

Quote:
Unless gas prices went too high, in which case, out the window with that as well.


How high is too high?

So high that people cannot afford transportation any longer. If you have someone who can't afford either gas, or a fuel-efficient vehicle, AND public transport does not exist, you have a serious problem.

Quote:
But if what you say is true, then inflation should just be able to pick up the tail end of things.


Not in a "free market" where the prices go as high as that market will sustain. Any increase in wages should be met by an increase in cost of products and services. Thus, either no increase in wages and the any rising cost of essentials is absorbed or there is a general inflation.

But they are not. Wages stay stagnant, and inflation goes up. Hence, the average person has less money.

Quote:
But gas prices are still going up. Inflation is a tax, plain and simple.


That is inaccurate pure and simple. Calling a dog a cat does not make it so.

Let's analyze the differnces:
Taxes take money away from people. Inflation reduces people's spending power, hence they have less money, hence they have had money taken from them. Sure, that definition may not match your law books, but surely it is logical to you, no?



Quote:
It is also a very deceitful tax.


No, it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.

My dislike for it is irrelevant. The point is that excessive taxes are not good for the economy, and inflation manipulates the economy in such a way as to benefit politicians. Therefore my stance is for the better of America.

Quote:
A tax that cannot be seen by the majority populous is both very effective and very unfair.


Probably because they understan what a tax really is and inflation does not come close to meeting that crtiteria.

Only because it does not match your law books. And, quite frankly, the average population understands nothing.

Quote:
If everyone knew that the Fed can create money for the government out of thin air, and that the government relies very heavily upon this practice, it would create a revolution.
Let's just look at GM. Too much borrowing, too much spending, bad management, etc, got them bailed out. And now, governmental intervention on the part of Obama and the Chevy Volt (which by the way is a complete joke), and other things which I haven't researched very well, are causing GM to go under again. Ultimately this is the government's fault, as they are the biggest shareholder of GM. And honestly, who buys chevy? They only last for 150k miles and are junk! GMC gas guzzlers are much better. The Cadillac line is also very lovely and immortal (hopefully). But off track.


A lot of misinformation, but the lack of research does show.

True, but GM is not a very well run company otherwise A. they would not be going bankrupt and B. their cars would not be so uncompetitive.

Quote:
How about the postal service? The government raided it too much and now they have too cut back "because they aren't making enough money." When what is actually true is that they took too much money from the USPS for it to function.


The Nixon Administration set it up as a quasi-business and then retained control over the main guidelines. Thus, even though they can show a profit they are required to pre-pay benefits, unlike any other "business" and are restricted as to what areas may be streamlined by Congress.


So since it was a quasi business, it really shouldn't have had it's money raided...


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:00 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_tax

Quote:
Inflation tax is a term which refers to the financial loss of value suffered by holders of cash and fixed-rate bonds, as well those on fixed income (not indexed to inflation), due to the effects of inflation. This financial loss of value is often expressed as a loss of purchasing power.


It is even called "inflation tax." Therefore your previous statement that inflation is in no way a tax is blatantly wrong. You said yourself you needed several million more dollars to keep yourself at your current status, for retirement due to expected inflation. Does not that make you the slightest bit peeved?


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:31 am 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_tax

Quote:
Inflation tax is a term which refers to the financial loss of value suffered by holders of cash and fixed-rate bonds, as well those on fixed income (not indexed to inflation), due to the effects of inflation. This financial loss of value is often expressed as a loss of purchasing power.


It is even called "inflation tax." Therefore your previous statement that inflation is in no way a tax is blatantly wrong.


Is it a direct or indirect tax? How exactly does it fit into the definition of a tax? I do not see where it does.

tax

A fee charged ("levied") by a government on a product, income, or activity. If tax is levied directly on personal or corporate income, then it is a direct tax. If tax is levied on the price of a good or service, then it is called an indirect tax. The purpose of taxation is to finance government expenditure. One of the most important uses of taxes is to finance public goods and services, such as street lighting and street cleaning. Since public goods and services do not allow a non-payer to be excluded, or allow exclusion by a consumer, there cannot be a market in the good or service, and so they need to be provided by the government or a quasi-government agency, which tend to finance themselves largely through taxes.


Quote:
You said yourself you needed several million more dollars to keep yourself at your current status, for retirement due to expected inflation. Does not that make you the slightest bit peeved?


That is according to one estimation formula over another.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 am 
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SiberD wrote:
AHAHAHA! And you believe that tripe that the FED is running a policy to bring inflation to an acceptable level? And nothing in that statement changes his agreement that inflation is a tax.


In looking up the definition of tax for Heritage, I noticed a definition that fits this statement, but does not carry the meaning attributed to it.

2 [in singular] a strain or heavy demand: a heavy tax on the reader’s attention

Congressman, I couldn't agree with you more that inflation is a STRAIN and that inflation is currently too high, and it is a top priority of the Federal Reserve to run a policy that is going to bring inflation to an acceptable level consistent with price stability as we go forward.

Congressman, I couldn't agree with you more that inflation is a HEAVY DEMAND and that inflation is currently too high, and it is a top priority of the Federal Reserve to run a policy that is going to bring inflation to an acceptable level consistent with price stability as we go forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:59 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
HeritageFarm wrote:
Only if you want there to be supply. If you let the free market take care of itself, oil prices would go up, people would consume less, and other prices would (somewhat) stay the same.


If you ignore that whole transportation issue that is included in the cost and thus the sale price if there is to be a profit. Of course, in a theoretical true free market the price is always as high as can be made so the only impact would be the lowering of profit.


HeritageFarm wrote:
And yet the price is still high. So supposedly the government is supposed to keep costs down? The only to keep costs down is to subsidize them, which transfers the cost onto the public.


You moved to an entirely different discussion from the error in assuming costs of transportation would not affect other prices. The government is supposedly supposed to keep all costs down? How? Why?

Quote:
Quote:
Unless gas prices went too high, in which case, out the window with that as well.


How high is too high?


Quote:
So high that people cannot afford transportation any longer. If you have someone who can't afford either gas, or a fuel-efficient vehicle, AND public transport does not exist, you have a serious problem.


Some people have never been able to afford transportation well, so they must cut other necessities as required.

Quote:
Quote:
But if what you say is true, then inflation should just be able to pick up the tail end of things.


Not in a "free market" where the prices go as high as that market will sustain. Any increase in wages should be met by an increase in cost of products and services. Thus, either no increase in wages and the any rising cost of essentials is absorbed or there is a general inflation.

Quote:

But they are not. Wages stay stagnant, and inflation goes up. Hence, the average person has less money.


You are discussing something different that what I wrote.

In a "free market" the price is supposed to be as high as the market will bear and no higher. Thus, if there is a wage increase for any reason the costs accross the board would then rise accordingly .... which would be inflation as the same things would cost more.

Quote:
Quote:
But gas prices are still going up. Inflation is a tax, plain and simple.


That is inaccurate pure and simple. Calling a dog a cat does not make it so.


Quote:
Let's analyze the differnces:
Taxes take money away from people. Inflation reduces people's spending power, hence they have less money, hence they have had money taken from them. Sure, that definition may not match your law books, but surely it is logical to you, no?


Taxes are the government TRANSFER of money from the population to the government for public works. That definition does not cover the usage of the term.

A leg is an appendage on a dog, so calling a tail a leg can be done, but it does not make a dog have five legs.


Quote:
Quote:
It is also a very deceitful tax.


No, it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.


Quote:

My dislike for it is irrelevant. The point is that excessive taxes are not good for the economy, and inflation manipulates the economy in such a way as to benefit politicians. Therefore my stance is for the better of America.


You just refuted your own point nicely.

Quote:
Quote:
A tax that cannot be seen by the majority populous is both very effective and very unfair.


Probably because they understand what a tax really is and inflation does not come close to meeting that crtiteria.


Quote:
Only because it does not match your law books. And, quite frankly, the average population understands nothing.


That supports my point well. The definition does not fit and the use is based on ingorance fueled by emotionalism.

Quote:
Quote:
If everyone knew that the Fed can create money for the government out of thin air, and that the government relies very heavily upon this practice, it would create a revolution.
Let's just look at GM. Too much borrowing, too much spending, bad management, etc, got them bailed out. And now, governmental intervention on the part of Obama and the Chevy Volt (which by the way is a complete joke), and other things which I haven't researched very well, are causing GM to go under again. Ultimately this is the government's fault, as they are the biggest shareholder of GM. And honestly, who buys chevy? They only last for 150k miles and are junk! GMC gas guzzlers are much better. The Cadillac line is also very lovely and immortal (hopefully). But off track.


A lot of misinformation, but the lack of research does show.


Quote:
True, but GM is not a very well run company otherwise A. they would not be going bankrupt and B. their cars would not be so uncompetitive.


Now for the exceptions or do we ignore your prior points on the Cadillac brand?

Quote:
Quote:
How about the postal service? The government raided it too much and now they have too cut back "because they aren't making enough money." When what is actually true is that they took too much money from the USPS for it to function.


The Nixon Administration set it up as a quasi-business and then retained control over the main guidelines. Thus, even though they can show a profit they are required to pre-pay benefits, unlike any other "business" and are restricted as to what areas may be streamlined by Congress.


Quote:
So since it was a quasi business, it really shouldn't have had it's money raided...


They were "raided"? When? How?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:41 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Quote:
And the economy that relies on credit to function.


Wayne, you do realize that credit = debt, right? And you think that is a good thing?


You seem to know very little about business and cash flow. Unless one deals with consumers on a direct cash basis there is a delay in cash flow. With such delays there is the need for short term loans or lines of credit to deal with normal operations. There is also the need for capital for expansion. So, yes, credit is a good thing because nearly every business has to have some type of credit to operate.



And what of all that credit (money) that has been doled out to the "too big to fail banks"? What are they doing with it? They've been using it more for speculation, or just holding on to it, then utilizing it for expansion.

And what about the $900 billion in household revolving debt....

and the $1 TRILLION in student loan debt.....

and the $16 TRILLION in public debt?

or should I just take your word that all credit is good?

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