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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Then we have someone who only used pot .......

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/us/florid ... index.html

The naked Florida man who chewed off the face of another man last month in a zombie-like cannibal attack used marijuana but not "bath salts" as police had suspected, authorities said Wednesday.

Rudy Eugene, 31, was killed by a police officer after Eugene's 18-minute attack on a homeless man. His body didn't show "any other street drugs, alcohol or prescription drugs, or any adulterants found in street drugs," according to the Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner Department.

"The department has also sought the assistance of an outside forensic toxicology reference laboratory, which has confirmed the absence of 'bath salts,' synthetic marijuana and LSD," the statement said.



Holy shit folks! DO NOT ..... I repeat, DO NOT smoke pot! You could end up chewing someone's face off. Seriously!
Do not smoke it to relax. Do not smoke it to ease pain. Do not smoke it recreationally. Do not smoke it therapeutically. Above all, if you disregard this notice, you could end up in jail for 90 years!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
This is a interesting subject.
My knee-jerk reaction is that this will be a mess but after so much spent on the war on drugs with so little rsults; maybe it's just the most pragmatic move.



Yes Iowanic Not only less costly but also the most humane.

Quote:
Many people may not realize that the Department of Justice is trying to - and will probably succeed at - sentencing me to a mandatory minimum of 85 years in the Federal prison system. If I am given credit for "good time," I would be eligible for release after serving 72 years. I am now 38 years old. This would be a life sentence for me, ending with my death in prison. I was offered several "plea bargains" before my trial. Those deals could have reduced my time in prison to less than 5 years, but I could not take a plea deal. For me, not defending the ideals I know are right is dishonorable. I intend to hold this country and republic up to its own highest standards.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:30 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:

Above all, if you disregard this notice, you could end up in jail for 90 years!




Not for simple possession you cannot, but if you are a supplier you may, and especially if you try to make sure you get the maximum sentence.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:36 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Iowanic wrote:
This is a interesting subject.
My knee-jerk reaction is that this will be a mess but after so much spent on the war on drugs with so little rsults; maybe it's just the most pragmatic move.



Yes Iowanic Not only less costly but also the most humane.

Quote:
Many people may not realize that the Department of Justice is trying to - and will probably succeed at - sentencing me to a mandatory minimum of 85 years in the Federal prison system. If I am given credit for "good time," I would be eligible for release after serving 72 years. I am now 38 years old. This would be a life sentence for me, ending with my death in prison. I was offered several "plea bargains" before my trial. Those deals could have reduced my time in prison to less than 5 years, but I could not take a plea deal. For me, not defending the ideals I know are right is dishonorable. I intend to hold this country and republic up to its own highest standards.


Except for the part where this guy would not have been treated any differently because he was not charged with personal use or possession. He is a drug trafficker and thus would be charged with the crimes in any case.

http://www.cato.org/publications/white- ... g-policies

On July 1, 2001, a nationwide law in Portugal took effect that decriminalized all drugs, including cocaine and heroin. Under the new legal framework, all drugs were "decriminalized," not "legalized." Thus, drug possession for personal use and drug usage itself are still legally prohibited, but violations of those prohibitions are deemed to be exclusively administrative violations and are removed completely from the criminal realm. Drug trafficking continues to be prosecuted as a criminal offense.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:53 pm 
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/2 ... 22870.html

Williams was in charge of Montana Cannabis' Helena greenhouse, where federal agents confiscated 950 plants in March 2011. That operation was the biggest of the 26 large medical marijuana provider homes, offices and businesses raided that day across the state.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Less than two weeks before the election, Obama’s administration seems to be dismantling their war on medicinal cannabis; as numerous legal battles start to favor common sense and freedom

Obviously, no one person can singlehandedly “win” the drug war; which vast legions of dedicated citizens have been fighting against for many decades. Yet, the trial of Chris Williams is poised to take center stage in the legal unraveling of this insane war on medical cannabis users and providers. It seems the idea of a candid, up front and honest business man doing almost ninety years in prison for supplying medicine in compliance with state law doesn’t even sit well with the prosecuting attorneys anymore.

http://blog.montananorml.org/


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:38 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Less than two weeks before the election, Obama’s administration seems to be dismantling their war on medicinal cannabis; as numerous legal battles start to favor common sense and freedom

Obviously, no one person can singlehandedly “win” the drug war; which vast legions of dedicated citizens have been fighting against for many decades. Yet, the trial of Chris Williams is poised to take center stage in the legal unraveling of this insane war on medical cannabis users and providers. It seems the idea of a candid, up front and honest business man doing almost ninety years in prison for supplying medicine in compliance with state law doesn’t even sit well with the prosecuting attorneys anymore.

http://blog.montananorml.org/


A blogger hoping to see something which is not there?

From the same blog:

In yet another related case, the DEA’s own judge ruled “in favor of removing the government obstruction to medical cannabis research in the United States.“ Which, to the best of my knowledge, means removing it from the status of a “schedule I narcotic.” If this is not a recognition of the current medical use of cannabis in the United States, I don’t know what it’s lacking. Perhaps some lawyer or DEA agent out there would be kind enough to provide some insight? Either way, it does also have the effect of bringing the scientific results of cannabis research back into the court system where it belongs.

If he had bothered to read the reference the "recognition of the current medical use of cannabis" and "the removal from the status of a Schedule I narcotic" supposedly took place some five years ago and yet the projected upcoming change as a result which should have already been seen is still missing.

It seems the whole decriminalization claim has about as much relation to the blogger claims. Compliance with a questionable state law is no defense for a clear violation of federal law.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Personally, I think Chris should be immediately freed. The guy who was nuts to begin with and went even more nuts on pot was a very, very rare aberration. I have always thought pot should be legal and taxed like cigarettes and alcohol.
I no longer smoke or drink and haven't in a long time. I quit booze and pot in 1996, pot because it led me to rationalize and want to drink. I quit cigarettes, the worst addiction, in 2004. I think pot can cause cancer like cigarettes, if smoked as much. I think cigarettes are like a cancer causing opiate and more harmful than opiates in that respect. Booze is the most harmful of all. Yet, some people can take it or leave it and it is not a habit. Others get beer guts. It is a fact of history that prohibition did not work.
Legalization and taxing would give the country needed funds, as long as the legalized and taxed version was superior and cheaper than the "street" version. Then criminal incentives would disappear. Cigarettes which are too heavily taxed and the taxes do not go to helping people kick the habit enough and thus reducing the tax money, are still a source of criminal activity because of that too heavy a tax.
The tax on booze should also be going to treatment centers more than it is. They still advertize Sam Adams on TV, but that will kill you or ruin your life just as quick as the no longer advertized cigarettes, or even quicker. The amount of violence and crimes from people on alcohol is far greater that those on pot in any way of measuring. The health costs of alcohol and cigarettes are far higher than those of pot, in my opinion as a former user of all of them.
Legalize, tax and regulate all of them, and actually use the tax money for treatment and education. Computerize the system so that someone can not buy enough of any given drug to cause addiction, as an ideal (which would be difficult with instantly addictive stuff like crack and cigarettes, and the differential ability to get addicted between people). Include a lot of the ancient herbals that can help cure addictions, and do similar things as other more harmful ones, are legal and untaxed now.
Nothing is going to stop the desire of people to relax, make music sound even better, go on voyages from their own mind, relieve various pain, or experience euphoria. The need for more education is better than the need for more prison cells. All victimless crimes should be abolished, and of those crimes with victims, 3 time offenders have shown a very high recidivism rate and they have an average of three kids (two more than needed to help overpopulation), and half of them become criminals. The best thing to save tax money, in this ready to crumble from debt society, is to have a much higher execution rate of real criminals.
WS;"Compliance with a questionable state law is no defense for a clear violation of federal law." This should include Title8USC1324-5 and the fines that go with them, including to politicians. For example: Obama owes 150 billion, and so does Bush and Clinton. All staff at SPLC, the ACLU, and LaRaza, too. Governors, mayors and others of sanctuary states and cities, also in felony violation of Federal Law.
Perhaps, as time goes on, those that get addicted easier, and those that can be rehabilitated from doing crimes with victims, will be better identified, and the population will have reduced to sustainable. In a perfect world, no debt, and harmony. :-({|=

"Here lies a Hampshire Grenadier
Who caught his death
Drinking cold small beer.
A good soldier is ne're forgot
Whether he dieth by musket
Or by pot."
As referenced in the Big Book of AA in "Bill's Story". He was a WWI officer and co-founder of AA. I am a "friend of Bill's".

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Personally, I think Chris should be immediately freed. The guy who was nuts to begin with and went even more nuts on pot was a very, very rare aberration. I have always thought pot should be legal and taxed like cigarettes and alcohol.
I no longer smoke or drink and haven't in a long time. I quit booze and pot in 1996, pot because it led me to rationalize and want to drink. I quit cigarettes, the worst addiction, in 2004. I think pot can cause cancer like cigarettes, if smoked as much. I think cigarettes are like a cancer causing opiate and more harmful than opiates in that respect. Booze is the most harmful of all. Yet, some people can take it or leave it and it is not a habit. Others get beer guts. It is a fact of history that prohibition did not work.
Legalization and taxing would give the country needed funds, as long as the legalized and taxed version was superior and cheaper than the "street" version. Then criminal incentives would disappear. Cigarettes which are too heavily taxed and the taxes do not go to helping people kick the habit enough and thus reducing the tax money, are still a source of criminal activity because of that too heavy a tax.
The tax on booze should also be going to treatment centers more than it is. They still advertize Sam Adams on TV, but that will kill you or ruin your life just as quick as the no longer advertized cigarettes, or even quicker. The amount of violence and crimes from people on alcohol is far greater that those on pot in any way of measuring. The health costs of alcohol and cigarettes are far higher than those of pot, in my opinion as a former user of all of them.
Legalize, tax and regulate all of them, and actually use the tax money for treatment and education. Computerize the system so that someone can not buy enough of any given drug to cause addiction, as an ideal (which would be difficult with instantly addictive stuff like crack and cigarettes, and the differential ability to get addicted between people). Include a lot of the ancient herbals that can help cure addictions, and do similar things as other more harmful ones, are legal and untaxed now.
Nothing is going to stop the desire of people to relax, make music sound even better, go on voyages from their own mind, relieve various pain, or experience euphoria. The need for more education is better than the need for more prison cells. All victimless crimes should be abolished, and of those crimes with victims, 3 time offenders have shown a very high recidivism rate and they have an average of three kids (two more than needed to help overpopulation), and half of them become criminals. The best thing to save tax money, in this ready to crumble from debt society, is to have a much higher execution rate of real criminals.
WS;"Compliance with a questionable state law is no defense for a clear violation of federal law." This should include Title8USC1324-5 and the fines that go with them, including to politicians. For example: Obama owes 150 billion, and so does Bush and Clinton. All staff at SPLC, the ACLU, and LaRaza, too. Governors, mayors and others of sanctuary states and cities, also in felony violation of Federal Law.
Perhaps, as time goes on, those that get addicted easier, and those that can be rehabilitated from doing crimes with victims, will be better identified, and the population will have reduced to sustainable. In a perfect world, no debt, and harmony. :-({|=

"Here lies a Hampshire Grenadier
Who caught his death
Drinking cold small beer.
A good soldier is ne're forgot
Whether he dieth by musket
Or by pot."
As referenced in the Big Book of AA in "Bill's Story". He was a WWI officer and co-founder of AA. I am a "friend of Bill's".



Agreed. The war on drugs, especially when it involves the criminalization of marijuana users and providers, is misguided, and a result of a combination of ignorance and fear. The Report on the Global Commission on Drug Policy has stated that the war on drugs HAS failed (not is failing or will fail), but HAS failed. The problem is that many are eating from the trough of the war as funding has been set up over the last 40 years to provide jobs to law enforcement and prisons. Jobs are at stake.



Here's a story about a little boy who was secretly given medical marijuana in the form of oil and showed some very positive results .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ather.html


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Personally, I think Chris should be immediately freed.


He broke the law and should be willing to pay the price for his actions. That is a personal responsibility which seems to be lost in this discussion. It is not like he was unaware of the issue or anything. He took the chance to make the money, got busted, and wants to be a martyr, which is fine with me.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:43 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Agreed. The war on drugs, especially when it involves the criminalization of marijuana users and providers, is misguided, and a result of a combination of ignorance and fear. The Report on the Global Commission on Drug Policy has stated that the war on drugs HAS failed (not is failing or will fail), but HAS failed. The problem is that many are eating from the trough of the war as funding has been set up over the last 40 years to provide jobs to law enforcement and prisons. Jobs are at stake.



Here's a story about a little boy who was secretly given medical marijuana in the form of oil and showed some very positive results .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ather.html


Such a conspiracy theory approach shows how weak logically this defense actually is. I have no problem with people deciding which drugs they are willing to accept based on the impacts on society, but the decision needs to be made with factual information and not conspiracy theories and emotional appeals.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
Agreed. The war on drugs, especially when it involves the criminalization of marijuana users and providers, is misguided, and a result of a combination of ignorance and fear. The Report on the Global Commission on Drug Policy has stated that the war on drugs HAS failed (not is failing or will fail), but HAS failed. The problem is that many are eating from the trough of the war as funding has been set up over the last 40 years to provide jobs to law enforcement and prisons. Jobs are at stake.



Here's a story about a little boy who was secretly given medical marijuana in the form of oil and showed some very positive results .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ather.html


Such a conspiracy theory approach shows how weak logically this defense actually is. I have no problem with people deciding which drugs they are willing to accept based on the impacts on society, but the decision needs to be made with factual information and not conspiracy theories and emotional appeals.


What "conspiracy theory"?

A new report by the Global Commission on Drug Policy argues that the decades-old worldwide "war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world." The 24-page paper was released Thursday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43248071/ns ... anel-says/


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:06 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
Agreed. The war on drugs, especially when it involves the criminalization of marijuana users and providers, is misguided, and a result of a combination of ignorance and fear. The Report on the Global Commission on Drug Policy has stated that the war on drugs HAS failed (not is failing or will fail), but HAS failed. The problem is that many are eating from the trough of the war as funding has been set up over the last 40 years to provide jobs to law enforcement and prisons. Jobs are at stake.



Here's a story about a little boy who was secretly given medical marijuana in the form of oil and showed some very positive results .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ather.html


Such a conspiracy theory approach shows how weak logically this defense actually is. I have no problem with people deciding which drugs they are willing to accept based on the impacts on society, but the decision needs to be made with factual information and not conspiracy theories and emotional appeals.


What "conspiracy theory"?


This conspiracy theory:

The problem is that many are eating from the trough of the war as funding has been set up over the last 40 years to provide jobs to law enforcement and prisons. Jobs are at stake.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Here's a story about a little boy who was secretly given medical marijuana in the form of oil and showed some very positive results .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ather.html[/quote]

Such a conspiracy theory approach shows how weak logically this defense actually is. I have no problem with people deciding which drugs they are willing to accept based on the impacts on society, but the decision needs to be made with factual information and not conspiracy theories and emotional appeals.[/quote]

What "conspiracy theory"?[/quote]

This conspiracy theory:

The problem is that many are eating from the trough of the war as funding has been set up over the last 40 years to provide jobs to law enforcement and prisons. Jobs are at stake. [/quote]

No. It's a simple fact. It's going to take time and effort to first, slow down, and then turn around when there is so much momentum already behind a failed policy. Tax money will have to be redirected and long established positions will become irrelevent. New ones will eventually be created but transitions are always a little stressful. Change takes time and effort.

Changing policy, and direction, after spending so much money on it, and having lost many lives in the so-called war on drugs, would be very difficult, Morris admitted.

"To turn around and say that 'this is been a failure' and make a U-turn is terribly difficult," he said. "It's like trying to turn around a 400,000-ton supertanker."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43250543/ns ... ongheaded/


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:42 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Quote:
This conspiracy theory:

The problem is that many are eating from the trough of the war as funding has been set up over the last 40 years to provide jobs to law enforcement and prisons. Jobs are at stake.


No. It's a simple fact. It's going to take time and effort to first, slow down, and then turn around when there is so much momentum already behind a failed policy. Tax money will have to be redirected and long established positions will become irrelevent.


Tax money redirected? Not unless all drugs were legalized and then only the budget for the DEA.

Quote:
New ones will eventually be created but transitions are always a little stressful. Change takes time and effort.


Provided there is sufficient change and sufficient support for that change.

Quote:
Changing policy, and direction, after spending so much money on it, and having lost many lives in the so-called war on drugs, would be very difficult, Morris admitted.

"To turn around and say that 'this is been a failure' and make a U-turn is terribly difficult," he said. "It's like trying to turn around a 400,000-ton supertanker."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43250543/ns ... ongheaded/


Cigarettes and alcohol are both legal yet there are massive black markets for both. the same for prescription drugs, yet you can get grey or black market drugs in many places other than your local pharmacy.

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