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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Bored Wombat wrote:

Milton Banana wrote:
Anyone here support that?


Besides yourself, I don't see anyone supporting genocide.


How about in Gaza? The Hamas Charter to be exact.

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)


Look there's no doubt that oppressing a people for three generations breeds extremism. The way out is economic development and democratic rights. Not more of the same.

Yes, the Hamas movement is based on no more negotiation with Israel. But I can see how you might despair of negotiation with Israel after sixty years of injustice.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Bored Wombat wrote:

Milton Banana wrote:
My father served in the Pacific during WW2. In post war Philipines there is a large Muslim population that made their presence known through the usual tactics. A force of 50 attacked US forces and a handful survived. A large trench was dug. Survivors were lined up to witness what was to take place next. The dead were dumped into the trench. Two pigs were then slaughtered. The blood and entrails were dumped over the bodies. The heads were cut off and dumped in as well. Everything was buried. The survivors were released. Problems with the Muslim population dropped off significatly in the years to follow. Viscousness is all they understand. And there is only one way to fight them and win. You have to demonstrate you are willing to fight to their last man. Of course many here are not interested in winning.

Compassion I'm full of it for peace loving, democratic, capitolist people who are interested in bettering themselves.


So you'd have no compassion for your father or yourself then?

Milton Banana wrote:
All you have to do is listen to what these people say in their native tongue. They spell it out.


Do you speak Arabic?

Milton Banana wrote:
They say exactly what they want to do. They want to finish what Hitler started.

Genocide.

Milton Banana wrote:
Anyone here support that?


Besides yourself, I don't see anyone supporting genocide.


This is absolutely the most embarrasing and childish argument I have ever witnessed. :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:09 am 
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Bored Wombat wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Really? How much of the Sinai do they occupy after capturing it and crossing the Suez?


None of it.


So they returned that territory they captured.

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Wayne Stollings wrote:
How much of Gaza do they occupy?


About three quarters of it.


Not according to the Hamas government. The borders were created in 1948 and controlled by Egypt (other than a period of Israeli occupation) until Isreal took control in 1968 and later from which Isreal withdrew all troops and its citizens removed.

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How do you conclude Israel was the aggressor when the Arab nations vowed their destruction and attacked them?


As for your rhetoric about vowing destruction, I'm not sure what you mean.


It is really simple. Israel declared it independence. The Arab nations vowed the destruction of Israel and attacked them. Attacking a nation with troops of another nation or in this case, multiple nations is generally called aggression and the nation being attacked is called the defending nation.

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If you are referencing a particular speech by a particular leader, please cite it. However claiming that this "the Arab nations" vowed somebodies destruction is just racist. A lead might do that, but a nation doesn't. A diverse group of nations from Turkey to Palestine certainly doesn't.


First there was no nation of Palestine at the time. Second, The joint attack by Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt shows a common goal of the organization known as the Arab League.

The quote from the Sec. General of the Arab League gives the clear indication:

http://www.meforum.org/3082/azzam-genocide-threat

An October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit in the Lebanese town of Aley,[9] by Akhbar al-Yom's editor Mustafa Amin, contained an interview he held with Arab League secretary-general Azzam. Titled, "A War of Extermination," the interview read as follows (translated by Efraim Karsh; all ellipses are in the original text):

Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha spoke to me about the horrific war that was in the offing… saying:

"I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine's Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine … You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.


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How do you conclude that Israel was attacked when the fighting was outside their original borders, and they annexed large areas of Palestine?


The fighting STOPPED outside the original borders, but the original borders were invaded in the initial attacks.

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Do you agree that there is a difference between invading and being attacked?


Yes. Israel was both attacked and invaded.

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And if you're annexing other peoples land, that is an invasion.


If you ATTEMPT to annex other peoples land by force, that is an invasion. If you counter that invasion and force the invaders back, that is not aggession.

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This is very very simple: If your army is outside your country's boundaries, and the civilians from the other country are fleeing their homes before you, you have invaded. If their army is in your country, and your civilians are fleeing, you have been invaded. And that's it.


So you ignore the invasion of Israel and claim the counter attacks are the aggressions? Not very logical to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:06 am 
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And the evidence for this claim is?


You will be aware of this law?
No Israeli Citizenship for Palestinian Spouses


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 16,00.html

The law states that the interior minister is entitled to grant citizenship only if the West Bank applicant has made a strong enough case that he identifies with the State of Israel and that he or his family members have cooperated with Israel or made a contribution to Israel's security.

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Of course, there is the counter claim of the same thing in the Arab countries since there was a region to send them.



Palestinians and Israeli Arabs aren't from other Arab countries. They're already in their homeland.


The homeland the other Arab nations prevented form being formed? I find it telling that you have ignored the expulsion of Jews from Arab lands while railing against the supposed expulsion of Arabs from Israel over the years.

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Do you really think that they should be held accountable with their human rights, education, healthcare, economic chances and prosperity because of what has happened to another group in another country?


Not another group as those Jews which were forced out are the ones who are now in Israel.

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Fine, but if Israel wanted a true ethnic cleansing, as the term implies, there would not be any of the undesired people left alive in Israel after the various flare ups because they would have been "killed in the fighting".


That simply doesn't follow. The policies for ethnic cleansing are around never selling an Arab land, denying residency to people who are married to Palestinians, and revoking residency from people who visit their families outside Israel or who fled violence. That has cleansed the majority of Israel, but not all of it.


Ethic Cleansing as normally defined is far different from what you have described.

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No, history claims Israel did not start the war. They were attacked by the Arab nations immediately after the state was formed.


This is beyond ridiculous. If you are attacked, the fighting takes place in your country. You only annex other countries if you invade. Do you accept that


You seem to have no idea of what happened. I have reviewed many of the battles of the Arab-Israeli Wars over the years and know the forces of the Arab Nations invaded Israel and Israel stopped the invasion and forced the invaders back. They eventually accepted a cease-fire which resulted in a larger area of control being negotiated by Israel. You seem to look at the end and assume Israel should have stopped at their border to prevent being an aggressor.

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Yes, they have been fighting for their lives against a larger number of opponents since they were formed.


For their lives? Wouldn't not fighting and supporting the development of everyone in the region be better for their lives?


They were not given the choice since they were invaded almost immediately after the declaration of independence.

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They have been fighting to annex more an more of Palestine, because they believe they have a god given right to their land. And they have been fighting to keep the Palestinians in poverty.


That is why they gave the Sinai back to Egypt more than once? Gave Gaza back to Egypt? Withdrew from Gaza?

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They have no territory that can buffer them in an attack and their opposition had vowed to destroy them.


And yet Palestine is much more destroyed than Israel. Actions speak louder than words.


Yes, Israel had to fight for its life and did it very well. That is what happens sometimes when one is backed into a corner.

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Such a conflict is not something any nation would choose.


What if their goal was ethnic cleansing?


You mean like the statement of the Arab League or Hamas?

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What if the standard of living in Palestine was much lower than in Israel, and by bombing roads and power plants under shadow of a war, they could not only keep them on their knees, but also shoot off their feet?


Maybe it is the rockets and suicide attacks that are removing those feet.

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What if the sensation of superiority that that resulted in was popular with a large voting block in Israel?


What if the Palestinians had elected a leadership that did not vow to destroy Israel?

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Would it be possible for a nations to choose it then?


You tell me

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Why is it always Israel that breaks the cease-fires, do you think?


I would say that is not the truth.

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Something to do with being shown to be militarily dominant being good for an Israeli government's re-election chances? Or something to do with not wanting conflict?


Or responding to attacks from people who want to destroy them.

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You mean like allowing them to become independent and form their own government?


Applying a tarriff on all exports, or more recently simply not allowing them. Cutting off power and water to the agricultural industries. Holding perishable exports at the border until they have to be dumped. Putting road-blocks to limit movement of resources around Palestine. Bombing infrastructure to keep them dependent of Israeli power. Building the wall between people's houses and their land so that they have no source of income, and allowing settlers to take the soil for their land. Refusing to recognise the independent government (and pressuring their allies to do the same) so that the budget can be cut off by Israel (as it was when Hamas was elected). Even enforcing malnutrition by not allowing food aid into the country has a lasting effect on the economic capacity of those children brought up under the famine of the Israeli blockade.


I can't imagine whay they would not recognize the terrorist otrganization leadership that vowed to destroy them. The reaction to the threat would be natural.

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The problem being that government also vowed the destruction of Israel thus creating a problem for all of the above.


Surely the bigger problem is the real, actual, and not just vowed destruction of Palestine?


When and where was such a vow made?

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Israel has power and communications and a good education system, roads, bridges, and movement of resources and goods. They also have access to health care, and most of all, can move around their country and engage in making a living and in living. They haven't been significantly destroyed, and I see no evidence that there is a risk of them being significantly destroyed if they don't hold millions of their fellow Semites in concentration camps, that you call "independent and forming their own government".


Fellow Semites? That is far from the claims made by the Arabs concernimg the proposed division of Palestine by the UN.

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Whose armies were first to cross the border?


Israel's in the majority of cases.


There is only one first time since you have claimed Israel was the aggresor from the start.

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That is the definition of who attacked whom, not which nation ended with the strongest position.


That's a murky criteria.


No, it is not. The aggressor is the one initiating the conflict.

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It's not easy to tell who attacked whom first, especially prior to aerial or satellite surveillance.


It is in this case. There is a lot of written information and most of it is in agreement.

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One persons guess is as good as another's. What we do know is that Israel invaded and annexed it's neighbours.


No, we know that Israel was attaked and after being beaten back those attackers ceded the additional land to Israel since they had control of the rest of it.

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That much is indisputable. I have read that in one area (I don't recall which) there was fighting inside the 1947 borders of Israel. I have not heard that that is the case everywhere where Israel invaded.


Israel invaded and the troops from Iraq, Jordan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, and the Sudan all just happened to be there in case there was such an invasion immediately after the state of Israel was formed?

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We also know that hundreds of thousands of Arabs fled their homes before the Israeli invasion, and that the Israelis have confiscated their land and houses, denying them residency in their homeland, and taking for themselves everything that they owned.


Such a skewed spin on history ....

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It is the governments and people of the region surrounding Israel. Such a question implies lack of understanding of the history.


They aren't even stable themselves. Your claim that the are a cohesive whole that had the opportunity for peace is nutty.


No, that is why there was the organization called the Arab League. All they had to do was not attack Israel and there would have been peace. Israel had accepted the UN division.

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Your extension that therefore Israel has every right to starve and oppress the people of Palestine, and the Arabs of Israel who they are denying the return to their homeland to, wouldn't even follow if it was true.


They have the right of self protection and that extends to actions against those who have vowed to destroy the state of Israel.

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But the subtext was: when do you claim this opportunity was offered, and to whom?


It was offfered to everyone in the region by the UN when the British Mandate was given a end point. The Arab nations oppsed the formation of both the Israeli and Palestinian governments. Israel formed their government and defended it. The rest of the region was controlled by the Arab nations.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:09 am 
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Bored Wombat wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Bored Wombat wrote:



Besides yourself, I don't see anyone supporting genocide.


How about in Gaza? The Hamas Charter to be exact.

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)


Look there's no doubt that oppressing a people for three generations breeds extremism. The way out is economic development and democratic rights. Not more of the same.

Yes, the Hamas movement is based on no more negotiation with Israel. But I can see how you might despair of negotiation with Israel after sixty years of injustice.



And Israel should not dispair after 60 years of being attacked by the Arabs seeking to destroy them? Since the Hamas charter preceded the election by almost 20 years the intent of the election seemed clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:31 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
So they returned that territory they captured.

Yes, the Sinai was returned to Egypt. Most of the Arab territory around Gaza was not. And the annexing of the occupied territories continues.

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Not according to the Hamas government. The borders were created in 1948 and controlled by Egypt (other than a period of Israeli occupation) until Isreal took control in 1968 and later from which Isreal withdrew all troops and its citizens removed.


The Gaza strip is very much smaller than the area drawn up by the UN prior to most of it being annexed by Israel in 1948.

http://theweeklyspectrum.files.wordpres ... .jpg?w=720
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It is really simple. Israel declared it independence. The Arab nations vowed the destruction of Israel and attacked them.

Okay, can you please provide a source for this vow.
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Attacking a nation with troops of another nation or in this case, multiple nations is generally called aggression and the nation being attacked is called the defending nation.


Okay. Now you claim that Israel was attacked, and I claim that Palestine was attacked.

What is proven is that Israel annexed parts of Palestine, and that Arabs inside Israel and in the

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First there was no nation of Palestine at the time. Second, The joint attack by Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt shows a common goal of the organization known as the Arab League.


Joint defence. It only shows that Israel attacked in many directions at once.

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The quote from the Sec. General of the Arab League gives the clear indication:

http://www.meforum.org/3082/azzam-genocide-threat


That article described a controversy about whether the quote was actually real. It certainly takes a position on the controversy ... its origins are in a 1947 interview.

But its clearly controversial. This is your idea of a "clear indication"?


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The fighting STOPPED outside the original borders, but the original borders were invaded in the initial attacks.

Image


Okay, you've got a map that reproduces the numbers from Yoav Gelber, who is one extreme end of the controversy over what happened. He was a vociferous opponent of historians in the region with the other view such as Ilan Pappé.

I don't think it's correct to just accept those numbers or movements without also considering more central views or at least admitting that it is controversial.

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Yes. Israel was both attacked and invaded.


That's your opinion, but it is not backed by a consensus of historians. And the interpretation of what happened aside, it was the Palestinians who were massacred, driven from their homes, and had their land annexed. That much is not controversial. I would guess that your opinions of who was the aggressor are probably wrong, but the first casualty of war is the truth, and we may never know.

What we do know is what happened.

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If you ATTEMPT to annex other peoples land by force, that is an invasion. If you counter that invasion and force the invaders back, that is not aggession.


And this is the (arguably invalid) argument for why Israel tries to present itself at the attacked. History doesn't bare that out.

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So you ignore the invasion of Israel and claim the counter attacks are the aggressions? Not very logical to me.


No, I claim the attacks on Palestine are aggressions. And I question that the invasion of Israel was anywhere near as extensive as suggested by the Israelis.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:40 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
And Israel should not dispair after 60 years of being attacked by the Arabs seeking to destroy them? Since the Hamas charter preceded the election by almost 20 years the intent of the election seemed clear.


Where are the roads better Israel or Gaza?


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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:57 am 
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Bored Wombat wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
So they returned that territory they captured.

Yes, the Sinai was returned to Egypt. Most of the Arab territory around Gaza was not. And the annexing of the occupied territories continues.


That territory belonged to which government? Jordan and Egypt occupied territory as well, whose territory did they take?

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Not according to the Hamas government. The borders were created in 1948 and controlled by Egypt (other than a period of Israeli occupation) until Isreal took control in 1968 and later from which Isreal withdrew all troops and its citizens removed.


The Gaza strip is very much smaller than the area drawn up by the UN prior to most of it being annexed by Israel in 1948.

http://theweeklyspectrum.files.wordpres ... .jpg?w=720


The borders rejected by the Arab nations and accepted by Israel? The Arab nations gave the land to Israel after their invasion was repulsed by Israel. If it was not Arab land to give whose was it? Why is it acceptable for Jordan to annex land from the same source?


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It is really simple. Israel declared it independence. The Arab nations vowed the destruction of Israel and attacked them.


Okay, can you please provide a source for this vow.


I have already given one inportant source which seems to have been overlooked. I will give a couple of more in another post.

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Attacking a nation with troops of another nation or in this case, multiple nations is generally called aggression and the nation being attacked is called the defending nation.


Okay. Now you claim that Israel was attacked, and I claim that Palestine was attacked.


And the historical record says you are mistaken.

http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/art ... 061/Israel

On May 14, 1948, in Tel Aviv, Zionist leaders led by David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the State of Israel. The next day British troops withdrew, relinquishing the mandate. The surrounding Arab countries—Egypt, Jordan (then called Transjordan), Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon—immediately invaded Palestine to help the Palestinian Arabs and to try to crush the Jewish state.


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What is proven is that Israel annexed parts of Palestine, and that Arabs inside Israel and in the


No, there is far more proven about the attack.

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First there was no nation of Palestine at the time. Second, The joint attack by Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt shows a common goal of the organization known as the Arab League.


Joint defence. It only shows that Israel attacked in many directions at once.


Joint defence within hours of the nation of Israel being formed by far flung countries which just happened to be there and outnumbered the Israeli forces? Not according to the historical record.

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The quote from the Sec. General of the Arab League gives the clear indication:

http://www.meforum.org/3082/azzam-genocide-threat


That article described a controversy about whether the quote was actually real. It certainly takes a position on the controversy ... its origins are in a 1947 interview.

But its clearly controversial. This is your idea of a "clear indication"?


No, it is not controversial because it shows where the quote was missed in the search to support it and where it was found. The quote is a clear indication once it was confrimed as accurate.


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The fighting STOPPED outside the original borders, but the original borders were invaded in the initial attacks.

Image


Okay, you've got a map that reproduces the numbers from Yoav Gelber, who is one extreme end of the controversy over what happened. He was a vociferous opponent of historians in the region with the other view such as Ilan Pappé.


You claim the fringe view is accurate when the majority of historians disagree with that view? Note the Encyclopedia Brittanica disagrees with that fringe view as well.

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I don't think it's correct to just accept those numbers or movements without also considering more central views or at least admitting that it is controversial.


More central? That view is the fringe or beyond. It is not controversial, but the fringe view clearly is.

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Yes. Israel was both attacked and invaded.


That's your opinion, but it is not backed by a consensus of historians.


I think you will have to provide evidence of this claim. It is not supported by the articles in any reputable reference source I have seen.

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And the interpretation of what happened aside, it was the Palestinians who were massacred, driven from their homes, and had their land annexed. That much is not controversial.


I believe that indicates loss in battle not the status of aggressor.


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I would guess that your opinions of who was the aggressor are probably wrong, but the first casualty of war is the truth, and we may never know.


You guess is clearly wrong given the volumes of information on the subject, but I agree the truth has been butchered by your sources.

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What we do know is what happened.


Yes, and you intend on ignoring much of it that disagrees with your opinion.

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If you ATTEMPT to annex other peoples land by force, that is an invasion. If you counter that invasion and force the invaders back, that is not aggession.


And this is the (arguably invalid) argument for why Israel tries to present itself at the attacked. History doesn't bare that out.


Actually it is supported by the history, just not the fringe history you have chosen to believe over the majority.

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So you ignore the invasion of Israel and claim the counter attacks are the aggressions? Not very logical to me.


No, I claim the attacks on Palestine are aggressions.


Which is not the normal and accepted use of the term. I suppose you would claim someone was an aggressor if they beat you up after you punched them in the nose. That is the analogy for this situation and most people including the courts would disagree with you.

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And I question that the invasion of Israel was anywhere near as extensive as suggested by the Israelis.


Of course you do, but it is not just Israeli information which gives the information. John Bagot Glubb, the British born officer in command of Jordan's Arab Legion stated the invasion of Israel was a mistake. Although Jordan did not attempt to destroy Israel in the invasion, just take territory, they were still privy to the informations from the other nation's armies.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:58 am 
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Bored Wombat wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
And Israel should not dispair after 60 years of being attacked by the Arabs seeking to destroy them? Since the Hamas charter preceded the election by almost 20 years the intent of the election seemed clear.


Where are the roads better Israel or Gaza?


What does this have to do with anything?

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:03 am 
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A couple of quotes on the destruction of Israel


“I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.”
- Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League
(Akhbar al-Yom, Egypt, October 11, 1947; quoted in David Barnett and Efraim Karsh, “Azzam’s Genocidal Threat,” Middle East Quarterly, Fall 2011)

“If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea… Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state... But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.”
- Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder
(New York Times, August 2, 1948)

“In demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves, or to put it more clearly – the intention is the extermination of Israel.”
- Salah al-Din, Egyptian Foreign Minister
(Al-Misri, Egypt, October 11, 1949; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“Israel, to the Arab world, is like a cancer to the human body, and the only way of remedy is to uproot it just like a cancer… Had we united then [in 1948] Israel would not have come into existence. Israel is a serious wound in the Arab world body, and we cannot endure the pain of this wound forever. We don’t have the patience to see Israel remain occupying part of Palestine for long… We Arabs total about 50,000,000. Why don’t we sacrifice 10,000,000 of our number to live in pride and self-respect?”
- King Saud of Saudi Arabia
(New York Times, January 10, 1954)

“Is not Israel’s isolation a natural result of her racial artificiality, a patchwork society of German, Polish, East European recruits, of her cultural and political singularity, and to the fact that she does not belong, and should not belong to that part of the Arab world upon which she was imposed by outside force? … No international intrigue, no force whatsoever can oblige the Arabs to accept the intruders whose hands are still stained with the blood of other Arabs…”
- M. Samir Ahmed, Egyptian Embassy Press Secretary
(Letter, Washington Post, September 20, 1955)

“We are awaiting aggression by Israel and any supporters of Israel. We will make it a decisive battle and get rid of Israel once and for all… This is the dream of every Arab.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser, President of Egypt
(Washington Post, July 27, 1959)

“If the refugees return to Israel – Israel will cease to exist.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Zuercher Woche, West Germany, September 1, 1961; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“... collective Arab military preparations, when they are completed, will constitute the ultimate practical means for the final liquidation of Israel.”
- Arab League
(Summit Declaration, January 1964; quoted in Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World [Penguin, 2001], p230)

“Our path to Palestine will not be covered with a red carpet or with yellow sand. Our path to Palestine will be covered with blood… In order that we may liberate Palestine, the Arab nation must unite, the Arab armies must unite, and a unified plan of action must be established.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Pre-election speech, 1965; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism: A History [Yale University Press, 2007], p162)

“The day on which the Arab hope for the return of the refugees to Palestine is realized will be the day of Israel’s extermination.”
- Abdallah al-Yafi, Lebanese Prime Minister
(Al-Hayat, April 29, 1966; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“We have decided to drench this land with our blood, to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, May 24, 1966; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p59)

“We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, January 16, 1967; quoted in Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War [Oxford University Press, 2002], p42)

“We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel’s death and annihilation.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 16, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p82)

“The Zionist barrack in Palestine is about to collapse and be destroyed… Every one of the hundred million Arabs has been living for the past nineteen years on one hope - to live to see the day Israel is liquidated… There is no life, no peace nor hope for the gangs of Zionism to remain in the occupied land.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 18, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p105)

“It is our chance, Arabs, to direct a blow of death and annihilation to Israel and all its presence in our Holy Land. It is a war for which we are waiting and in which we shall triumph.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 19, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p105)

“[Syrian forces are ready for] the liberation operation to explode Zionist existence.”
- Hafez Assad, Syrian Defence Minister
(New York Times, May 21, 1967)

“... the time has come to get rid of the Zionist cancer in Palestine.”
- Taher Yahia, Vice-Premier of Iraq
(New York Times, May 21, 1967)

“Fight, Arabs. Let them know that we shall hang the last imperialist soldier with the entrails of the last Zionist.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, May 23, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p59)

“Israel lacks the strength to endure against the Arabs even for one hour. The Arab people’s decision is unfaltering: to wipe Israel off the face of the map…”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, May 23, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p79)

“We knew that by closing the Gulf of Aqaba it might mean war with Israel. [If war comes] it will be total and the objective will be to destroy Israel.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Washington Post, May 27, 1967)

“The hour has come to end Israel’s existence.”
- Sheikh Ahmed Kaftaro, Grand Mufti of Syria
(New York Times, May 28, 1967)

“With the closing of the Straits [of Tiran], Israel faces two possibilities, both of which are blood-soaked: either it will die by strangulation in the wake of the Arab military and economic blockade, or it will die by shooting from the Arab forces surrounding it in the south, north and east.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Radio Cairo, May 27, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p79)

“We shall destroy Israel and those behind Israel.”
- General Tahar Zbiri, Algerian Chief of Staff
(New York Times, May 28, 1967)

“Whoever survives will stay in Palestine, but in my opinion, no-one will remain alive.”
- Ahmed Shuqayri, PLO founder
(Al-Yawm, Lebanon, June 3, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?’” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p72)

“Strike the enemy’s settlements, turn them into dust, pave the Arab roads with the skulls of Jews.”
- Hafez Assad
(Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War [Oxford University Press, 2002], p293)

“By God, if it is decreed that we have to wade through seven seas of blood and that the whole region has to sink in blood to get revenge for its honor and dignity, then we will wade through the seas of blood.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, June 11, 1967, quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p118)

“The operation of liberation is not merely removing an imperialistic base, but what is more important: the extermination of a society; not only is military defeat the aim in the Palestinian war of liberation, but the liquidation of the Zionist character of the occupied land, whether in manpower or in society.”
- Fatah statement
(Liberation of the Occupied Lands and the Method of Struggle Against Direct Colonialism, September 1967; quoted in Y. Harkabi, The Palestinian Covenant and its Meaning [Vallentine Mitchell, 1979], pp47-8)

“The real Palestine problem is the existence of Israel in Palestine. As long as a Zionist existence remains even in a tiny part of it - that will mean occupation. The important thing is to liquidate the Israel occupation, and there is no difference between the territories lately occupied and those occupied before.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Radio Cairo, March 17, 1968, quoted in Gil Carl AlRoy, “Do the Arabs Want Peace?” Commentary, February 1974)

“The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the State of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time…” (Article 19); “The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.” (Article 20); “… the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence…” (Article 22).
- PLO Covenant
(Palestine National Council, July 1-17, 1968; reprinted Y. Harkabi, The Palestinian Covenant and its Meaning [Vallentine Mitchell, 1979])

“There is no room in the Middle East for Arab nationalism and Zionist nationalism… in the Middle East there is no room for the Arab nation and Israel…”
- Mohammed Heikal, Nasser’s adviser and spokesman
(Al-Ahram, February 21, 1969; quoted in Yehoshafat Harkabi, Palestinians and Israel [Keter Books, 1974], p1)

“We must fight our way to victory on a sea of blood and a horizon of fire.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Wall Street Journal, November 14, 1969)

“I believe that we now have a duty to remove the aggressor from our land and to regain the Arab territory occupied by the Israelis. We can then engage in a clandestine struggle to liberate the land of Palestine, to liberate Haifa and Jaffa.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Meeting with King Hussein, 1970; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism: A History [Yale University Press, 2007], p172)

“We shall never stop until we can go back home and Israel is destroyed… The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromises or mediations… the goal of this violence is the elimination of Zionism from Palestine in all its political, economic and military aspects… We don’t want peace, we want victory. Peace for us means Israel’s destruction and nothing else. ”
- Yasser Arafat, PLO chairman
(Washington Post, March 29, 1970)

“There are only two specific Arab goals at present: elimination of the consequences of the 1967 aggression through Israel’s withdrawal from all the lands it occupied that year, and elimination of the consequences of the 1948 aggression through the eradication of Israel. The second goal is not, in fact, specific but abstract, and some of us make the mistake of starting with the second step instead of the first… we should learn from the enemy how to move step by step.”
- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman
(Al-Ahram, February 25, 1971; quoted in Theodore Draper, “The Road to Geneva,” Commentary, February 1974)

“If the political efforts succeed and some sort of a political solution is found which will eliminate the traces of aggression, this would by no means bring an end to our struggle against Zionism and imperialism, and will by no means bring a happy conclusion to our fateful battle against the United States and Israel, because no political settlement whatsoever could eliminate the basic contradiction which exists – and will continue to exist – between the Arab nation on the one hand and American imperialism and Zionism on the other… As long as the racist colonialist entity continues to burden the usurped land of Palestine, there will be a ‘focus’ for threat, expansion and aggression, a ‘center’ for counter-revolution, and a ‘broadcasting station’ for psychological warfare. Thus a political solution cannot by any means bring an end to the battle against the enemy.”
- Ahmed Nabil al-Hilali, Arab Socialist Union, Egypt
(Al-Katib, March 1971; quoted in Yehoshafat Harkabi, Palestinians and Israel [Keter Books, 1974], pp146-7)

“Once again, total Israeli withdrawal, if it were to take place, would be tantamount to showing that military strength is irrelevant to the outcome of the conflict… If you could succeed in bringing it about, you would have passed sentence on the entire state of Israel.”
- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman
(Interview, Journal of Palestine Studies, Autumn 1971, p7)

“The books published about Hitler depict him as a scoundrel who turned on other nations… his favourite dish seems to have been the Jews. He burned and drowned them because they are traitors to every land… People all over the world have come to realise that Hitler was right, since Jews respect neither law, religion, nor moral values. They are bloodsuckers and interested in destroying the whole world so that Israel shall remain. They are interested in destroying the whole world which has thrust them out of its midst, expelled them and despised them for centuries… and burned them in Hitler’s crematoria… one million… two million… six million.”
- Anis Mansour, Sadat’s associate and government commentator
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, August 19, 1973; quoted in New York Times, October 21, 1973)

“The demand for an Israeli withdrawal from all the occupied Arab territory is a partial demand which the Arab states call for as part of a general liberation plan whose purpose is to bring an end to the racist colonial presence in Palestine…”
- Egyptian government editorial
(Al-Gomhouria, Egypt, September 25, 1973; quoted in New York Times, October 21, 1973)

“Our forces continue to pursue the enemy and strike at him and will continue to strike at enemy forces until we regain our positions in our occupied land and continue then until we liberate the whole land.”
- Hafez Assad, President of Syria
(Radio Damascus, October 15, 1973; reprinted in Walter Laqueur, ed., The Israel-Arab Reader [Bantam Books, rev. ed., 1976], p459)

“The issue is not just the liberation of the Arab territories occupied since June 5, 1967, but strikes against the future of Israel more powerfully and in a more profound manner, although this is not obvious right now. This means that if the Arabs are able to liberate their territories occupied since June 5, 1967 by force, what can prevent them in the next stage from liberating Palestine itself by force?”
- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman
(Al-Ahram, October 19, 1973; quoted in Theodore Draper, “The Road to Geneva,” Commentary, February 1974; Gil Carl AlRoy, “Do the Arabs Want Peace?” Commentary, February 1974)

“All our moves are based on four general principles: continued use of the rifle, no waiving of historical rights, no peace, and no negotiations… Whatever form of government is established in the territory when the shadow of occupation passes away, whenever I address my fighters and revolutionaries, I shall say: ‘Let our rifles be aimed at the beloved land, the land of the homeland, the land of Palestine.’”
- Yasser Arafat
(Al-Safir, Beirut, March 26, 1974; Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1974, pp212-3)

“The [Palestine] Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated” (Article 2); “Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory…” (Article 8).
- PLO Phased Plan
(Wafa, Beirut, June 9, 1974; Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1974, p224)

“The effort of our generation is to return to the 1967 borders. Afterward the next generation will carry the responsibility.”
- Anwar Sadat, President of Egypt
(Al-Anwar, June 22, 1975; quoted in Y. Harkabi, Arab Strategies and Israel’s Response [Free Press, 1977], p55)

Q: “Are you saying that if Israel withdraws to its pre-’67 borders and recognizes the national rights of the Palestinians to a separate state of your own, the Palestine Liberation Organization would be prepared to accept the reality of Israel’s existence?”
A: “No, I am saying that the Israelis have two choices: to let all the Palestinians return to their land and have this democratic state we propose, or to live in this so-called state of Israel without letting the Palestinians return. If they choose the latter, they will surely die and we will surely win… this Zionist ghetto of Israel must be destroyed… We will unite the whole region in one state, not just Palestine.”
- Farouk Kaddoumi, Director of the PLO Political Department
(Newsweek, January 5, 1976)

“Let us all die, let us all be killed, let us all be assassinated, but we will not recognize Israel.”
- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad), PLO deputy leader
(New York Times, February 17, 1976)

“Israel is an alien body in the Arab sea. This body is bound to disappear given the effective medicine – a united Arab front.”
- Abu Hassan, PLO representative
(Foreign Broadcast Information Service, September 26, 1977; quoted in The New Republic, October 18, 1980)

“I want to tell Carter and Begin that when the Arabs set off their volcano there will be only Arabs in this part of the world… Our people will continue to fuel the torch of the revolution with rivers of blood until the whole of the occupied homeland is liberated, the whole of the homeland is liberated, not just a part of it.”
- Yasser Arafat
(Associated Press, March 12, 1979)

“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations… We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel.”
- Yasser Arafat
(El Mundo, Venezuela, February 11, 1980; The Times, UK, August 5, 1980)

“Fatah is a nationalist revolutionary movement bent on the complete liberation of Palestine [and] the liquidation of the Zionist entity economically, militarily, politically, culturally and intellectually…”
- Fatah Congress resolution
(Associated Press, June 5, 1980)

“Without any doubt the PLO is entirely in agreement with the [Fatah] resolution… We wish at any price to liquidate the State of Israel.”
- Ibrahim Souss, PLO representative
(Europe No. 1 Radio, France, June 16, 1980; The Times, UK, August 5, 1980)

“We shall never allow Israel to live in peace… We shall never recognize Israel, never accept the usurper, the colonialist, the imperialist.”
- Farouk Kaddoumi
(Der Stern, West Germany, July 30, 1981)

“The establishment of a Palestinian state over part of the Palestinian soil does not amount to a renunciation of the strategic aim. It is a pity that Israel realizes that… and knows that the establishment of such a state constitutes the reassertion of Palestinian identity and the beginning of the end for Israel.”
- Shafiq al-Hut, Director of the PLO’s Beirut office
(Al-Anba, Kuwait, March 20, 1983; quoted in Barry Rubin, Revolution Until Victory? The Politics and History of the PLO [Harvard University Press, 1994], p70)

“The Palestinian people will achieve an independent Palestinian state which will be the start of the liberation of the entire homeland. This is the beginning of the liberation and not its end or a halt along the borders of that state. The Palestinian state which shall arise shall be the beginning of the end of Israel.”
- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)
(Al-Qabas, Kuwait, November 10, 1984; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate For Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], pp398-9)

“The Prophet of Allah… says: ‘The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them, and until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim or Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him…’” (Article 7); “They are behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions here and there which we have heard of and are hearing of. With wealth they formed secret organizations throughout the world to destroy societies and promote the Zionist cause; these organizations included the Freemasons, the Rotary and Lions clubs, and others... They are behind the First World War… They are behind the Second World War…” (Article 22); “the Zionist plan has no bounds, and after Palestine they wish to expand from the Nile River to the Euphrates… such is their plan in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” (Article 32).
- Hamas Covenant
(Gaza, August 18, 1988; reprinted in Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1993, pp122-34)

“Palestine, whose shape resembles a dagger, doesn’t know the meaning of partition. Our independence does not mean the partition of the dagger, but rather, its penetration into the soil of the homeland… Those who expect the collapse of the Zionist structure through one decisive hit… don’t realize how the masses create their own power through a sequence of interrelated historical phases.”
- Ahmed Abd a-Rahman, Fatah chief spokesman
(Falastin al-Thawra, November 27, 1988; Jerusalem Post, December 21, 1988)

“The borders of our state… represent only a part of our national aspirations. We will strive to expand them so as to realize our ambition for the entire territory of Palestine.”
- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)
(Al-Anba, Kuwait, December 5, 1988; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Arafat’s War: The Man and his Battle for Israeli Conquest [Grove Press, 2003], p51)

“The establishment of a Palestinian state on any part of Palestine is but a step toward the whole of Palestine.”
- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)
(Al-Anba, Kuwait, December 13, 1988; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Arafat’s War: The Man and his Battle for Israeli Conquest [Grove Press, 2003], p51)

“It is [an] incontrovertible fact that Palestine is Arab-Islamic and that the Jews are the scum of humanity that gathered from the four corners of the earth and conquered our land… Treachery flows in their blood, as the Quran testifies.”
- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)
(Al-Qabas, November 28, 1989; quoted in Barry Rubin, Revolution Until Victory? The Politics and History of the PLO [Harvard University Press, 1994], p180)

“... the so-called ‘State of Israel’ was one of the consequences of World War II and should disappear, like the Berlin Wall has along with the other consequences of that war.”
- Yasser Arafat, joint statement with Colonel Gaddafi
(BBC Summary of World Broadcasts, January 8, 1990)

“You Germans have great expertise in the killing of Jews with gas. This interests us in the same way… How [can] this knowledge… be used to destroy Israel?”
- General Amer al-Saadi, Iraqi chemical weapons commander
(Kenneth Timmerman, The Death Lobby [Bantam Books, 1992], p81)

“It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth.”
- Hezbollah statement, issued under Islamic Jihad alias
(United Press International, March 24, 1992)

“We have to accept the [Oslo] deal and wait for a change in the circumstances that could lead to the elimination of Israel.”
- Abu el-Aynayn, PLO commander in Rashidieh, Lebanon
(US News and World Report, September 27, 1993)

“We will not lay down our weapons until complete liberation... Sooner or later we will throw the Zionists into the sea.”
- Lt. Col. Munir Maqdah, PLO commander in Lebanon
(Reuters, October 8, 1993)

“Palestine cannot contain the two of us. It is either us or the Zionists.”
- Abu Imad, PLO military commander in Bourj al-Barajneh, Lebanon
(Jerusalem Report, November 18, 1993)

“The Palestinian people know there is a state that was established through coercion and it must be destroyed.”
- Farouk Kaddoumi
(Reuters, Yediot Aharonot, August 10, 1994)

“The PLO will now concentrate on splitting Israel psychologically into two camps... We plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. Jews will not want to live among Arabs. I have no use for Jews. They are and remain Jews. We now need all the help we can get from you in our battle for a united Palestine under Arab rule.”
- Yasser Arafat, speech to Arab diplomats in Stockholm
(Jerusalem Post, February 23, 1996)

“We are sure of our victory against the Americans and the Jews as promised by the Prophet: Judgment day shall not come until the Muslim fights the Jew, where the Jew will hide behind trees and stones, and the tree and the stone will speak and say, ‘Muslim, behind me is a Jew. Come and kill him.’”
- Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda leader
(Esquire, February 1999)

“... the criminals, the terrorists - are the Jews… They are the ones who must be butchered and killed, as Allah the Almighty said: ‘Fight them: Allah will torture them at your hands, and will humiliate them and will help you to overcome them’ … Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them.”
- Dr Ahmad Abu Halabiya, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, October 13, 2000)

“Thanks to Hitler, of blessed memory, who… revenged in advance, against the most vile criminals on the face of the earth. Although we do have a complaint against him, for his revenge on them was not enough.”
- Egyptian government newspaper
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, April 18, 2001; repeated on April 25, 2001)

“[This is] an exceptional historic opportunity to finish off the entire cancerous Zionist project.”
- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader
(Financial Times, Europe Edition, April 25, 2001)

“No one can ask why Hitler punished the Jews… Did Hitler attack the Jews or did their crime deserve even more?”
- Egyptian government newspaper
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, May 27, 2001)

“Palestine is Arab and must be liberated from the river to the sea and all the Zionists who emigrated to the land of Palestine must leave.”
- Saddam Hussein, Iraqi dictator
(Iraqi Television, May 30, 2001; quoted in Robert Wistrich, Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p43)

“We are ambushing the Israelis and cheating them… If we agree to declare our state over what is now 22 percent of Palestine, meaning the West Bank and Gaza, our ultimate goal is the liberation of all historic Palestine from the River to the Sea… We distinguish the strategic, long-term goals from the political phased goals, which we are compelled to temporarily accept due to international pressure.”
- Faisal Husseini, PLO strategist
(Al-Arabi, Egypt, June 24, 2001; Jerusalem Report, July 30, 2001)

“The nature of the Zionist regime is aggressive and the arrival of Ariel Sharon in power has complicated the situation, but the intifada is the countdown for the destruction of Israel.”
- Abdel Halim Khaddam, Vice-President of Syria
(Agence France Presse, July 25, 2001)

“All spears should be directed at the Jews, at the enemies of Allah, the nation that was cursed in Allah’s book. Allah has described them as apes and pigs... We blow them up in Hadera, we blow them up in Tel Aviv and in Netanya… until the Jew will hide behind a stone or a tree, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, a Jew is hiding behind me, come kill him.”
- Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, August 3, 2001)

“... we believe that one of these days, we will enter Jerusalem as conquerors, enter Jaffa as conquerors, enter Haifa as conquerors, enter Ramle and Lod as conquerors… we are convinced that our dead go to Paradise, while the dead of the Jews go to Hell… Oh Allah, show the Jews a black day… Oh Allah, annihilate the Jews and their supporters… Oh Allah, raise the flag of Jihad across the land…”
- Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, April 12, 2002)

“If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”
- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader
(Daily Star, Lebanon, October 23, 2002)

“[The Jews] are accursed in heaven and on earth. They are accursed from the day the human race was created and from the day their mothers bore them… These accursed ones are a catastrophe for the human race. They are the virus of the generation, doomed to a life of humiliation and wretchedness… they are the plague of the generation and the bacterium of all time… Thus, the Jews are accursed - the Jews of our time, those who preceded them and those who will come after them, if any Jews come after them. With regard to the fraud of the Holocaust… I, personally and in light of this imaginary tale, complain to Hitler, even saying to him from the bottom of my heart, ‘If only you had done it, brother, if only it had really happened, so that the world could sigh in relief…’”
- Egyptian government newspaper
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, April 29, 2002)

“As for the bomb being chemical and poisonous, that was an invention by the evil Jordanian intelligence... God knows that should we - and we ask God to shortly empower us to - possess that kind of bomb, we would not hesitate one second to use it on Israeli cities.”
- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Jordanian terrorist leader
(Washington Post, September 27, 2004)

“... the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers… the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations… The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world – except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history… The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.”
- Sheikh Ibrahim Mudeiris, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, May 13, 2005)

“Allah’s promise and the Prophet’s prophecy of our victory in Palestine over the Jews and over the oppressive Zionists has begun to come true... Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day... Allah willing, we will make them lose their eyesight, we will make them lose their brains.”
- Khaled Mashal, Hamas leader
(Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006)

“My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but Allah, we will chase you everywhere! We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no blood better than the blood of Jews. We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children’s thirst with your blood.”
- Hamas broadcast
(Jerusalem Post, February 17, 2006)

“Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. It is an animal state that recognises no human worth. It is a cancer that should be eradicated.”
- Ghazi Hamad, Hamas spokesman
(BBC, November 8, 2006)

“Israel is weaker than a spider web. The future of Israel is death and perdition... Our martyrs inscribed in blood during the July-August war: Death to Israel.”
- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah
(Al-Manar TV, January 30, 2007)

“Rest assured that the day the American forces leave Iraq, the Israelis will leave the region along with them... This is because the annihilation of the Zionist regime has begun... The moment they leave Iraq, you, the Muslims of the world, can walk into Palestine, because Israel will no longer exist.”
- Abdallah Safialdeen, Hezbollah representative in Iran
(Channel 4, Iranian TV, March 4, 2007)

“Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one.”
- Ahmad Bahr, Palestinian Legislative Council acting speaker
(Sudan TV, April 13, 2007)

“The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.”
- Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon
(Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)

“By Allah, we will not be satisfied even if all the Jews are killed.”
- Dr. Walid Al-Rashudi, Department of Islamic Studies, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia
(Al-Aqsa TV, February 29, 2008)

“The treacherous Zionist enemy will never permit us to lessen our revenge towards him or stray from our confrontation against him, until he is wiped off this land, which is saturated with the blood of the martyrs.”
- Ahmad Dahbour, Palestinian Authority propagandist
(Jerusalem Post, March 23, 2008)

“Strike the interests of Jews and Americans, and all those who wield aggression against the Muslims. Today no one can say that we are battling the Jews in Palestine alone.”
- Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda leader
(Associated Press, March 24, 2008)

“The PLO... has not changed its platform even one iota... the Israeli ideology will collapse in its entirety, and we will begin to progress with our own ideology, Allah willing, and drive them out of all of Palestine.”
- Abbas Zaki, Palestinian Authority representative in Lebanon
(NBN TV, April 9, 2008)

“I am optimistic that within ten years, Israel will come to its end.”
- Riyad Nasan al-Agha, Syrian Minister of Culture
(Al-Hiwar TV, April 19, 2008)

“Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel... We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine’s territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists.”
- Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza
(UPI, May 14, 2008)

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Wayne I would like to ask permission to swipe your last post. That is a lot of good information.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:28 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Wayne I would like to ask permission to swipe your last post. That is a lot of good information.


Feel free as it was given to me. I liked that it contains the reference with the quote.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:19 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Friends today my mind is on Israel. In the last 12 years over 12,000 rockets have landed in Israel from Gaza. In the last three days over 492 rockets have been fired with 245 Iron Dome interceptions. That totals 737 rockets fired at Israel in three days. Plus two fired from Egypt. They have taken artillery fire from Syria in the last week. Personally I don’t see how any nation could or should put up with this. Israeli citizens are taught they have 15 seconds to reach shelter once the air raid sirens go off. I think Israel as a people and a nation have shown remarkable restraint that no other nation in this world is expected. Yasher koash.


They should not put up with this. No nation should. Problem is .... the Palestinian people in all regions and territories, must find shelter. Everybody needs reasonable drinking water and reasonabale health care. Everyone needs a roof above their heads regardless. We all need for our children to be safe. We are basically one. We have the same needs, whether Israeli or Palestinian. Having said this, how can one take sides? The situation is a very big tragedy .... huge in terms of traumatized and injured children and fractured families over several generations.

We can do as we have always done which is to take sides. So far, this has not gained results. Right?
This must be obvious. ..... Yasher koash ..... if you are listening.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:08 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
They should not put up with this. No nation should. Problem is .... the Palestinian people in all regions and territories, must find shelter. Everybody needs reasonable drinking water and reasonabale health care. Everyone needs a roof above their heads regardless. We all need for our children to be safe. We are basically one. We have the same needs, whether Israeli or Palestinian. Having said this, how can one take sides? The situation is a very big tragedy .... huge in terms of traumatized and injured children and fractured families over several generations.

We can do as we have always done which is to take sides. So far, this has not gained results. Right?
This must be obvious. ..... Yasher koash ..... if you are listening.


Taking sides or not taking sides, the result is still the same as long as one side refuses to admit the other side has a right to exist. Choices are critical and cannot be easily changed from outside. That is why an addict will not change their ways through outside influence. When the internal decision is made changes can happen and at that point outside influence can help. It is the same with this situation. The choice in leadership led to the impass in Gaza and the West Bank, but there was a change in leadership in the West Bank and there seems to be fewer problems there at this time.

One cannot compromise with another if the other is not willing to compromise.

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“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: Thinking of Israel.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:16 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Bored Wombat wrote:

Milton Banana wrote:
My father served in the Pacific during WW2. In post war Philipines there is a large Muslim population that made their presence known through the usual tactics. A force of 50 attacked US forces and a handful survived. A large trench was dug. Survivors were lined up to witness what was to take place next. The dead were dumped into the trench. Two pigs were then slaughtered. The blood and entrails were dumped over the bodies. The heads were cut off and dumped in as well. Everything was buried. The survivors were released. Problems with the Muslim population dropped off significatly in the years to follow. Viscousness is all they understand. And there is only one way to fight them and win. You have to demonstrate you are willing to fight to their last man. Of course many here are not interested in winning.

Compassion I'm full of it for peace loving, democratic, capitolist people who are interested in bettering themselves.


So you'd have no compassion for your father or yourself then?

Milton Banana wrote:
All you have to do is listen to what these people say in their native tongue. They spell it out.


Do you speak Arabic?

Milton Banana wrote:
They say exactly what they want to do. They want to finish what Hitler started.

Genocide.

Milton Banana wrote:
Anyone here support that?


Besides yourself, I don't see anyone supporting genocide.


This is absolutely the most embarrasing and childish argument I have ever witnessed. :clap:


Is it really? If so, you must support your assertion. Go ahead. The floor is clear.


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