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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Interwesting information on the stress factor.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7312687

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/defend-gun-7312540

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:



I wonder if the NRA has watched these videos .... And if they have, would they care? Probably not as this kind of information gets in the way of arming America.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
There is a graph here
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics ... ics/60071/
That shows the percentage of American households with guns has decreased from 50% in 1970 to 32% in 2010. Although that is those that admitted such. I suppose many did not want to admit anything. :mrgreen:
Then there is this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate
or this; http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

This is also interesting; http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_d ... death-rate

And more charts of gun ownership rates versus gun homicide rates;
http://augmentedtrader.wordpress.com/20 ... tatistics/

I would say that the number of households with firearms is still close to 50%. In polls at Centurylink.net it was over 2 to 1 against any weapons ban and over 2 to 1 for armed guards at schools.
From ralfy's bottom link; "Many people think that we have the Second Amendment so that we can take up arms against the government if it overreaches its authority. If that interpretation were correct, it would mean that the Second Amendment had repealed the Constitution’s treason clause, which defines this crime as taking up arms against the government."

Not really. If the government itself is treasonous or despotic, the people were originally supposed to be equally armed and able to have another revolution. There is good reason to think that the government has not been of the people for a long time, and has indeed been treasonous with not protecting the states from invasion. The treason clause is just one type of treason, and is negated when the government or officials act against the will of the majority, or are willfully not obeying or enforcing laws or upholding their Oaths to the Constitution.

Here is one that happened locally 5 yrs. ago, an armed woman saved many>>>>
http://www.gazette.com/opinion/jeanne-1 ... doesn.html

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:37 pm 
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When the NRA finally broke its silence one week after the massacre of children in Newtown, its searing screed blasting everyone else for the carnage, and blaming everything but guns should have surprised no one.

Its proposed "solution" - protecting schools with armed guards - is ludicrously misguided in multiple ways, not least by the simple fact that Columbine High School was protected by two armed guards, to no avail, not to mention the statistical record, highlighted in a report from the Children's Defense Fund, which shows that "the 5,740 children and teens killed by guns in 2008 and 2009 would fill more than 229 public school classrooms of 25 students each" - a rate of more than two Newtown massacres a week.

But if we want get to the core of the NRA's madness, it helps enormously to consider its warped worldview on the one hand - where "the only way to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun" - and its complete misunderstanding of rights on the other hand.


http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 15225.html


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Blaming guns and the association of gun owners is bogus.
Here is one that happened locally 5 yrs. ago, an armed woman saved many>>>> =D> =D> =D>
http://www.gazette.com/opinion/jeanne-1 ... doesn.html
and I really like this guy's no nonsense approach!!!
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... ol-schools
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ :mrgreen: =; :angel: I am another good guy with a gun and CCW :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZzY6KZuLUo

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Blaming guns and the association of gun owners is bogus.
Here is one that happened locally 5 yrs. ago, an armed woman saved many>>>> =D> =D> =D>
http://www.gazette.com/opinion/jeanne-1 ... doesn.html
and I really like this guy's no nonsense approach!!!
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... ol-schools
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ :mrgreen: =; :angel: I am another good guy with a gun and CCW :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZzY6KZuLUo



Sorry, but I have seen too many "cowboys" with CCW just wanting a chance to shoot someone. Police get paid to train for stressful situations and to keep their practice up, but they screw up quite a bit. What will an undertrained volunteer do? I would not have my kids in a school with volunteer armed guards for their safety. I have my CCW and more than a few hundred hours of range time, but I would not want to be armed in a school as a volunteer.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:28 pm 
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As I reconsidered my logic and let go of my previous rationale, the only remaining argument in my mind was the old standby,”Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” That is undeniable. But given the fact that the UK, France, Germany, Japan and Australia collectively have more people than the U.S. and only .05% the gun deaths, it is now obvious to me that the complete story veiled behind the “guns don’t kill people” half truth is: “Guns don’t kill people, but when people have access to guns, they kill a lot more innocent people than they otherwise could.”


http://www.salon.com/2012/12/28/iraq_ve ... n_control/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Real combat veterans such as myself would not be "under-trained volunteers". Plus others, trained for the job, would not be "cowboys out to kill someone". Those with CCW don't have to have their guns showing to children either. A potential shooter/bomber/slasher would not know who is armed, but that there are people there who are, and ready to stop him/her.
Remember, Paladin only used his gun when he had to, had great respect for the law, and compassion for his fellow man and for women. He was the ultimate good guy, often doing good for no fee at all.
For those who would like the USA to be European style, good luck getting over 80 million people to give up 270 million guns, and good luck getting the millions of outlaws to obey. How about getting islamic suicide bombers to obey, there are 1.6 billion potential ones out there. Europe is not safe from conquest by them.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Real combat veterans such as myself would not be "under-trained volunteers".


Sorry, but yes you are. How long has it been since you were in combat or trained? Skills are lost when not used and those are skills that would have to be revived at best.

Quote:
Plus others, trained for the job, would not be "cowboys out to kill someone".


Only if they were vetted in a similar fashion as police officers in major organizations. If they are just trained volunteers, you will have cowboys included because they are the first to volunteer in such a case.

Quote:
Those with CCW don't have to have their guns showing to children either. A potential shooter/bomber/slasher would not know who is armed, but that there are people there who are, and ready to stop him/her.


Yes, but they have to be readily accessed when needed, which means they will not remain a secret for long. A bulge is easily noticed if you are looking.

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Remember, Paladin only used his gun when he had to, had great respect for the law, and compassion for his fellow man and for women. He was the ultimate good guy, often doing good for no fee at all.


And a fictional television character too. :mrgreen:

We had a "bomb scare" a while back where a soldier driving down the interstate saw what could have been a bomb similar to IEDs he had seen in Iraq. This had been reported a day earlier to the highway patrol and the trooper sent to investigate did not find the threat. The deputies did and shut down the interstate, a cross road over the interstate, and two roads parallel to the insterstate near the site. They deployed their bomb unit and the SWAT team to secure the area in case there was a sniper waiting to shoot the bomb squad when it came to disarm it. One member of the SWAT team shot himself in the leg with his AR, which sent everyone into a tissy for a while. This was a trained officer who recieved additional training every month to remain on the SWAT team and he shot himself with a rifle. The bomb was a bundle of swim noodles, which had been attached to a fishing boat as a bumper so there were no other casualties in the incident except for the two hours it took me to drive 5 miles to get home.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Positing the radical notion of claiming personal responsibility for what we do, say or sell, a Florida pawn shop owner has decided to stop selling guns, which represent at least half his sales, in the wake of the Newtown shooting. Frank James, whose youngest child is six years old, said that after watching the news of Sandy Hook, he couldn't "be part of it anymore."

A new interactive tally of gun deaths shows 277 since Sandy Hook.


http://www.commondreams.org/further/2012/12/28


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:11 pm 
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The NRA Myth of Arming the Good Guys


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... tings-myth


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:47 pm 
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SOME people think the NRA stance is a myth or ludicrous, while MANY others, myself included, think it is RIGHT ON.
There have been some recent crimes of people using gasoline for assaults, and the worst school killing was done by bombs in 1927.
Society is not like it was when I was a kid. Overpopulation has caused crowding and a higher number of deranged people.
Disarming 100 million is an affront to our Constitution. The answer to this modern problem is CCW guards at, and CCW holders in, schools, and other places where mass killers would attack. Training is already done with the CCW course, and currency training would help. No unsightly bulges or easy access to weapons by grabby kids. Video surveillance and better door security are needed, too.
I would like to see a ban on violent video games, and perhaps some sort of mental testing with applications to buy guns. Maybe a Rorschach test. Plus, easier access for mental health for people with violent kids/young adults or violent spouses/relatives. IMHO
=D> :clap: =D> :clap: =D> :clap: =D> :clap: =D> :clap: =D> O:)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Ya think this school is safe?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:00 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
Ya think this school is safe?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"


The assumption of the guards being armed is not supported by the links, nor do the links in the article actually go to the night shift security job.

For those with limited math skills that think 12 guards for a 24 hour coverage for a 2 campus school is a lot try a little exercise.

One guard per 8 hour shift (gaps in coverage for breaks) means a minimun of 3 officers per campus and a total of 6 officers per day. That covers 5 days of coverage, but with 24 hour coverage they would also have coverage over the weekends which add 6 more shifts per campus which add the hours for 2.5 more guards. That means 9 officers for minimal coverage with no backup in case of illness or special events. If the guards are policemen working a second job as the article indicated, they would not be working 40 hour weeks and thus more officers would be needed to cover the shortage.

A local private school has unarmed security for their campus which is contracted 24/7 from a private company that employs more than 12 guards to cover that location since some are only part time workers.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... ce-Officer

As a matter of fact, one such school—Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC—posted a job opening for a night shift police officer on Nov. 28, so they could have protection around the clock.

According to the posting, the position "is the overnight/midnight shift," and they made it clear that candidates would have to provide copies of their training credentials, SPO license, and professional references.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:08 pm 
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So, what's Wayne's solution to all of the evil that takes place? I've still seen that be be expressed. If I missed it, please provide a link?

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