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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:33 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
http://stufffromjudy.posterous.com/best-commercial-shatner-ever-did-i-unconditio

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

I would have gut shot him instead! =; :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: \:D/ :-


Only on TV would the man holding a cocked gun on someone not have pulled the trigger when a gun was being drawn or fired. Fantasy is all we seem to have on one side of the discussion.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:49 am 
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The original article from "a completely leftist outlet known for lying about a great many things" that prompted the correction by Mr. Stevens.

http://www.examiner.com/article/newtown ... dead-hands

A video of a father, Bill Stevens, whose daughter attended Sandy Hook Elementary school, scene of the mass shooting in December, is making its rounds today of his testimony against gun control at a Working Group Public Hearing at the Connecticut State Capitol on gun violence prevention.

Although his daughter was not harmed in the shooting, his daughter’s friend’s little sister was a victim.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
http://stufffromjudy.posterous.com/best-commercial-shatner-ever-did-i-unconditio

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

I would have gut shot him instead! =; :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: \:D/ :-


Only on TV would the man holding a cocked gun on someone not have pulled the trigger when a gun was being drawn or fired. Fantasy is all we seem to have on one side of the discussion.

If you notice, the bad guy was momentarily distracted and that was when Bill pulled his gun and shot himin both feet instead of center of body mass as we are trained in CCW.
I remember a story about Porter Rockwell, how he told a bad guy with a gun drawn on him that it wouldn't work without the percussion cap on. The guy looked, and in that moment the great Sheriff of SLC shot the guy dead. That, of course, was before the days of cartridges.
The point is that a person under the gun, but with one, can distract or take advantage of a distraction, to shoot a guy with a loaded, cocked gun pointing in their direction. It all depends on split second decision making.
Recently an elderly lady had a burglar break in and she had him under the gun, but he took it away and raped her, because she hesitated. In training, it should be emphasized that hesitation kills.
Just like Bush hesitating before attacking al qaida camps for a month, and many got away to safety for years.
The school principal at Sandy Hook unhesitatingly gave her life by jumping unarmed in front of an armed young crazy. She should have had a CCW.
Hammers kill more people than so-called assault rifles per year, why not 'reasonable' controls on them??? The report is still not in on why the kid killer did what he did. Preventing people like him from getting guns is great if you can do it without taking away from the life, liberty, and happiness of millions of innocent people that own guns responsibly.
That video is great.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
The original article from "a completely leftist outlet known for lying about a great many things" that prompted the correction by Mr. Stevens.

http://www.examiner.com/article/newtown ... dead-hands

A video of a father, Bill Stevens, whose daughter attended Sandy Hook Elementary school, scene of the mass shooting in December, is making its rounds today of his testimony against gun control at a Working Group Public Hearing at the Connecticut State Capitol on gun violence prevention.

Although his daughter was not harmed in the shooting, his daughter’s friend’s little sister was a victim.


Now I'm confused. First you say,

[quoteBill Stevens has no children as Sandy Hook nor did he have any there at the time of the shooting. ][/quote]

Now you say,

Quote:
A video of a father, Bill Stevens, whose daughter attended Sandy Hook Elementary school, scene of the mass shooting in December, is making its rounds today of his testimony against gun control at a Working Group Public Hearing at the Connecticut State Capitol on gun violence prevention.

Although his daughter was not harmed in the shooting, his daughter’s friend’s little sister was a victim.
[/quote]

I don't know what the red part is about your just repeating what Steven's clearly stated in his testimony. And, yes Slate.com is a horrible source. It points out where you sit before you tell us where you stand. Clearly.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:31 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Wrong! :mrgreen: Your logic is illogical! :crazy: #-o [-X =;


With no reason given.

Troll fail.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:34 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
The original article from "a completely leftist outlet known for lying about a great many things" that prompted the correction by Mr. Stevens.

http://www.examiner.com/article/newtown ... dead-hands

A video of a father, Bill Stevens, whose daughter attended Sandy Hook Elementary school, scene of the mass shooting in December, is making its rounds today of his testimony against gun control at a Working Group Public Hearing at the Connecticut State Capitol on gun violence prevention.

Although his daughter was not harmed in the shooting, his daughter’s friend’s little sister was a victim.


Now I'm confused. First you say,

Quote:
Bill Stevens has no children as Sandy Hook nor did he have any there at the time of the shooting.


Now you say,

Quote:
A video of a father, Bill Stevens, whose daughter attended Sandy Hook Elementary school, scene of the mass shooting in December, is making its rounds today of his testimony against gun control at a Working Group Public Hearing at the Connecticut State Capitol on gun violence prevention.

Although his daughter was not harmed in the shooting, his daughter’s friend’s little sister was a victim.


I don't know what the red part is about your just repeating what Steven's clearly stated in his testimony.


That explains why you do not understand. You evidently lack the basic ability to comprehend communication.

If you notice I wrote about the first quote in this post being the reason for Stevens to write the correction.

The original article from "a completely leftist outlet known for lying about a great many things" that prompted the correction by Mr. Stevens.

The need for a correction means there was something which was incorrect. That incorrect aspect was that his daughter attended Sandy Hook. He never made that claim in the testimony, which you again were unable to comprehend, but stated his daughter was in lock down. The correction sent to the completely leftist outlet known for lying about a great many things stated the daughter went to another school.

Quote:
And, yes Slate.com is a horrible source. It points out where you sit before you tell us where you stand. Clearly.


Again your comprehension fails you. I never used Slate as a source, you did. I used the Examiner source which was the original.

As hard as it is to believe, I have to say you have gone past no credibility and into negative credibility now.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:40 am 
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The CORRECTION:

Wayne Stollings wrote:

The original source: (even mentioned in the link you provided if you had bothered to read it)

http://www.examiner.com/article/sandy-h ... un-control

UPDATE: I was contacted last night by Mr. Stevens with the following correction:

Thank you for the nice article about my testimony in Hartford. Unlike the Liberal media who don't let facts get in the way, I just wanted to let you know that my daughter does not attend Sandy Hook Elementary, but was in "lock down" nonetheless on December 14, 2012 at Reed Intermediate School (5th & 6th grade) about a mile away with her classmates, one of whom lost his little sister that day.


Do you really think a "completely leftist outlet known for lying about a great many things" would present a "nice article about <Stevens> testimony in Hartford" or that Stevens would bother to contact them if they had?

Two words ..... EPIC FAIL

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:41 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Wrong! :mrgreen: Your logic is illogical! :crazy: #-o [-X =;


Actually, the logic is sound. Stating something else is more dangerous as a defense in not dealing with a dangerous situation.

It is the same as saying we should not try to reduce any dangerous aspects except the most dangerous one. That is truly illogical and you are not the only one who has used that illogical approach. I used the information about the larger number of children being killed by swimming pools over guns in a discussion about gun bans once. The counter was that swimming pools also have more constant regulation and specific insurance to cover abuse, while the gun lobby tries to prevent any and all regulation of guns. Both are dangerous and both need to be addressed so claiming one is more of a threat and thus the other is without need of regulation is clearly illogical. That is when I started to look more closely at the situation.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:23 pm 
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The idea is NOT sound that we should look at the more minor set of dangers while relatively ignoring the most dangerous.
The so-called gun control listed today is not reasonable or sound, even to many anti-gunners.
It is reality that as far as human on human caused preventable deaths, medical malpractice is orders of magnitude worse, but we must have health care. Knives kill many more than so-called assault rifles, yet we need them to eat, just as we need guns for protection, hunting, and recreation. Vehicles driven by people kill more, but we need them for transportation a lot. Hammers kill more than so-called assault rifles, too, yet we need them to build.
There is no Constitutional Right to keep and bear hammers, but there is for arms, including guns. Except automatics and cannons, and explosive missiles.
There is no Constitutional Right to smoke cigarettes which kill hundreds of thousands per year including second hand smoke. There is the Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which really does not include killing others if it makes you happy, but does include the right of self defense to live which others can not take away from you just because they don't like guns of some sort.
There are already thousands of laws about guns on the books, so even more aren't reasonably going to make a difference.
The root causes of the increased violence are not addressed and we keep letting in over a million per year to increase our overpopulation. Crowd tolerance takes time, but is an extremely negative trait ecologically. In the end the crowded starving masses will turn to cannibalism to live, using sharp sticks if they have to. Insanity will become even more common merely because there are more people and not enough money to cover treating them all.
These economic effects are among the first wave with overpopulation. A country 16.4 trillion in debt can not afford to treat all of the mentally unstable, or those affected by overcrowding hostility and insanity.
Back when I was a kid and the US had half as many people, you did not hear of so many mass murders, but there were a few nuts who did and others who were cannibal. Even then the USA was well over long term sustainable population at the standard of living desired by most.
So-called assault weapons banning will not change the root causes that are increasing with even more gross overpopulation. All weapons are assault weapons, or protection weapons, including our fists. Knee jerk reaction to surface problems will not get at the real roots. We are already too outgunned by the police and military, and the only thing keeping us from even a more tyrannical government is so many of us armed. Police can not act as fast as a citizen armed who is under attack from criminals, and the government is not enforcing the laws it has made let alone more laws. Many in government are guilty of felonies but not taken out of office and charged like they should be. Our country has been invaded by 30 million in the past 30 years and the military have not stopped it, nor treasonous politicians. Pollution and depletion have gone up, crimes against humanity no less terrible than a nut kid killing numerous innocent little kids.
Does banning weapons matter when overpopulation will cause mass deaths in the billions followed many years later by extinction caused by the pollution those numbers of people put in the biosphere over time?
Knee jerk reactions and idiotic logic don't help the children of the future. So-called reasonable gun control does nothing. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
The idea is NOT sound that we should look at the more minor set of dangers while relatively ignoring the most dangerous.


It is a good thing that you are the only one presenting that flawed position them.

Quote:
The so-called gun control listed today is not reasonable or sound, even to many anti-gunners.


Odd that a large majority show support for many of the aspects in the polls. Perhaps you have actual references that say otherwise?

Quote:
It is reality that as far as human on human caused preventable deaths, medical malpractice is orders of magnitude worse, but we must have health care.


A red herring at best, since only you seem to believe there is a connection between malpractice and gun control legislations.

Quote:
Knives kill many more than so-called assault rifles, yet we need them to eat, just as we need guns for protection, hunting, and recreation.


Again, you are the only one indicating the total removal and then attacking that position. This is commonly called a Strawman fallacy.

Quote:
Vehicles driven by people kill more, but we need them for transportation a lot. Hammers kill more than so-called assault rifles, too, yet we need them to build.


Continuing with the false logic does not make it any less flawed.

Quote:
There is no Constitutional Right to keep and bear hammers, but there is for arms, including guns.


And there is the Constitutional requirement for the REGULATION as well.

Quote:
Except automatics and cannons, and explosive missiles.


No, the Constitution does not address any of these at all. The legislation to regulate these items has been added just like the proposed new regulatory legislation. If one set is legal they both are unless and until the courts rule otherwise.

Quote:
There is no Constitutional Right to smoke cigarettes which kill hundreds of thousands per year including second hand smoke.


There is no Constitutional restriction either. What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

Quote:
There is the Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,


That is actually in the Declaration of Independence and not specified in the Constitution, but has been considered as the basis in any case.

Quote:
which really does not include killing others if it makes you happy, but does include the right of self defense to live which others can not take away from you just because they don't like guns of some sort.


You still have the right to self defense, just not the choice of total weapons to use, such as cannons, automatic weapons, and weapons of mass construction. The leap from restrictions to taking away the right to self defense is not only flawed logic but hypocritical when taken with the accepted restrictions.

Quote:
There are already thousands of laws about guns on the books, so even more aren't reasonably going to make a difference.


More flawed logic. The numbers of laws do not indicate the impact of new or modified laws.

Quote:
The root causes of the increased violence are not addressed and we keep letting in over a million per year to increase our overpopulation.


So the rights some believe they have for freedom in reproduction are not protected by the Constitution now? More dichotomies as the discussion progresses, which seem to boli down to rights being selective depending on the personal beliefs of individuals rather than what the laws actually say.


Quote:
So-called assault weapons banning will not change the root causes that are increasing with even more gross overpopulation. All weapons are assault weapons, or protection weapons, including our fists.


Now you resort to playing with semantics? The legal definition of the assualt weapons and a more common definition being interchanged in the discussion is less than honest.

Quote:
Knee jerk reaction to surface problems will not get at the real roots. We are already too outgunned by the police and military, and the only thing keeping us from even a more tyrannical government is so many of us armed. Police can not act as fast as a citizen armed who is under attack from criminals, and the government is not enforcing the laws it has made let alone more laws. Many in government are guilty of felonies but not taken out of office and charged like they should be. Our country has been invaded by 30 million in the past 30 years and the military have not stopped it, nor treasonous politicians. Pollution and depletion have gone up, crimes against humanity no less terrible than a nut kid killing numerous innocent little kids.


Speaking of knee jerk reactions and redefinitions.

Quote:
Does banning weapons matter when overpopulation will cause mass deaths in the billions followed many years later by extinction caused by the pollution those numbers of people put in the biosphere over time?


Then why worry about the ban? Using your logic there are more important things to worry about, yet you continue with this. Multiple standards it seems.

Quote:
Knee jerk reactions and idiotic logic don't help the children of the future. So-called reasonable gun control does nothing.


So the hypocritical stances on rights somehow do make a difference? Or the less important concerns are to be addressed only when you think they should? The "idiotic logic" in the positions you have presented are acceptable why?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:24 pm 
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This great majority of gun control measures are symbolic political theatrics. What Americans must wake up and see its not a matter of gun control it’s a matter of EDP control. EDP is law enforcement short hand for emotional disturbed person. Not nessecaraly the person suffering from clinical depression and post traumatic stress disorder, but the person who is acting out so violently that law enforcement must become involved. 40 years ago the Adam Lanza’s would have been in a mental institution getting treatment. His mother tried repeatedly to make this happen.

Seung-Hui Cho was diagnosed with a sever anxiety disorder know as selective mutism, and a major depressive disorder.

James Eagan Holmes attempted suicide in jail multiple time. Holmes defense filed a motion claiming he was a psychiatric patient. Holmes himself claimed to he had the disorder dysphoric mania and warned others he was bad news.

Eric Harris took Fluvoxamine an SSRI antidepressant know for the side effect of interfering with normal social function. Harris was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder.

Adam Lanza was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. This is a developmental disorder not a mental illness. Nancy Lanza suspected more and filed with a court to commit Adam. She felt she could no longer control him. One could say she lost her life because of the current system.

Before 1970 and ACLU involvement we institutionalized our mental patients. Now they are left on the street. If parents suspect a mental problem it takes months for the courts to sort it all out. Plenty of time for the mentally ill to plan, prepare, and execute a mass shooting. Most of the mentally ill are not stupid. It is interesting to note the Cho and Holmes obtained their guns legally. Klebold, Harris, and Lanza did not.

Anyone who is in law enforcement and corrections can tell you how many people they have to deal with who would be classified as EDP and how many came to very bad ends do to the poor choices and actions that stemmed from their mental illness. To see someone commit what can only be considered an atrocity such as the slaughter of 20 children at Sandy Hook. The murder of six adults including the courageous principle who tried with her bare hands to disarm a maniac with a rifle. In response to this the answer is to take guns away from the law abiding is ludicrous.

If a school boy takes a crayon and rights all over the wall the proper response is to say all students can’t have crayons?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:09 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
This great majority of gun control measures are symbolic political theatrics. What Americans must wake up and see its not a matter of gun control it’s a matter of EDP control. EDP is law enforcement short hand for emotional disturbed person. Not nessecaraly the person suffering from clinical depression and post traumatic stress disorder, but the person who is acting out so violently that law enforcement must become involved. 40 years ago the Adam Lanza’s would have been in a mental institution getting treatment. His mother tried repeatedly to make this happen.


It seems you continue to make claims without evidence. Where exactly are the credible reports to the repeated attempts as institutionalization?

Quote:
Adam Lanza was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. This is a developmental disorder not a mental illness. Nancy Lanza suspected more and filed with a court to commit Adam. She felt she could no longer control him. One could say she lost her life because of the current system.


The hearsay claim has ever been confirmed or is this the same high quality information you have given so far?

Quote:
Before 1970 and ACLU involvement we institutionalized our mental patients. Now they are left on the street. If parents suspect a mental problem it takes months for the courts to sort it all out.


Odd the deinstitutionalization references never mention the ACLU, but do mention the cost cutting measures by the states. The parents do not have to take months in court to get treatment of a minor child. An adult, however, has the right to due process, which is right there in the Constitution.

Quote:
Plenty of time for the mentally ill to plan, prepare, and execute a mass shooting. Most of the mentally ill are not stupid. It is interesting to note the Cho and Holmes obtained their guns legally.


Which points to the need to change the firearms laws.

Quote:
Klebold, Harris, and Lanza did not.


What exactly was the illegal means by which Lnaza obtained the gun? It was legally purchased and stored by someone within his household, was it not?

Quote:
Anyone who is in law enforcement and corrections can tell you how many people they have to deal with who would be classified as EDP and how many came to very bad ends do to the poor choices and actions that stemmed from their mental illness. To see someone commit what can only be considered an atrocity such as the slaughter of 20 children at Sandy Hook. The murder of six adults including the courageous principle who tried with her bare hands to disarm a maniac with a rifle. In response to this the answer is to take guns away from the law abiding is ludicrous.


More strawmen or just illogical leaps of ignornace?

Quote:
If a school boy takes a crayon and rights all over the wall the proper response is to say all students can’t have crayons?


How many students are killed with crayons? It seems the previous question is answered by "illogical leaps of ignorance".

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:23 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I suppose they could check for a schizo record, but how about those effectively treated for other things, like PTSD and depression? Why threaten their rights?
I agree that owning a firearm should have a prerequisite of training, but that is often done by a responsible relative, who should be able to sign them off.
The Connecticut shooter was using illegal firearms for that state, with the 5th toughest gun laws in the country. So why punish 80 million law abiding Americans with extra expense and restrictions?
I believe gun control should be hitting an authorized target, whether at the range or an intruder trying to hurt you. The Constitution states firmly that the right shall not be infringed.
A 20 year old outlaw should not cause infringement anymore than an armed bank robber should. If teachers at the school were not restricted from carrying, they could have stopped some of the carnage of the 20 year old outlaw. More must be found out about him before calling for infringement on 80 million Americans 2nd Amendment Right.
If the guy was overly angry at his mother, why wasn't he reported as a possible threat? How did he get the illegal firearm? Is he like the Colorado theater shooter who had people know of his condition but through PC did not report it enough, and use confidentiality to hide their culpability?
Was he somehow brainwashed by billionaire anti-gunners? Kind of like the intent of "Fast and Furious", also with its PC(felonious) cover-up.

I just heard the latest on the shooting. the man who did the shooting had a significant altercation with FOUR school personnel the week before. He killed 3 of them the day of the shooting and would have got the 4th but he had the day off. WHY didn't they report him????

And around and around we go with wayne acting like some of the AGW denialists, but doing it for the kicks of argument. I think you are turning into a straw man yourself. The article from an AR14 victim was in our newspaper, and probably others.
Ted Nugent for President!!! Now, after all the others are impeached!!!
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/olympic-a ... und-sand/#

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:09 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I suppose they could check for a schizo record, but how about those effectively treated for other things, like PTSD and depression? Why threaten their rights?
I agree that owning a firearm should have a prerequisite of training, but that is often done by a responsible relative, who should be able to sign them off.
The Connecticut shooter was using illegal firearms for that state, with the 5th toughest gun laws in the country. So why punish 80 million law abiding Americans with extra expense and restrictions?
I believe gun control should be hitting an authorized target, whether at the range or an intruder trying to hurt you. The Constitution states firmly that the right shall not be infringed.
A 20 year old outlaw should not cause infringement anymore than an armed bank robber should. If teachers at the school were not restricted from carrying, they could have stopped some of the carnage of the 20 year old outlaw. More must be found out about him before calling for infringement on 80 million Americans 2nd Amendment Right.
If the guy was overly angry at his mother, why wasn't he reported as a possible threat? How did he get the illegal firearm? Is he like the Colorado theater shooter who had people know of his condition but through PC did not report it enough, and use confidentiality to hide their culpability?
Was he somehow brainwashed by billionaire anti-gunners? Kind of like the intent of "Fast and Furious", also with its PC(felonious) cover-up.

I just heard the latest on the shooting. the man who did the shooting had a significant altercation with FOUR school personnel the week before. He killed 3 of them the day of the shooting and would have got the 4th but he had the day off. WHY didn't they report him????

And around and around we go with wayne acting like some of the AGW denialists, but doing it for the kicks of argument. I think you are turning into a straw man yourself. The article from an AR14 victim was in our newspaper, and probably others.
Ted Nugent for President!!! Now, after all the others are impeached!!!
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/olympic-a ... und-sand/#


The problem is that what you hear is too often incorrect. An opinion is just that, an opinion. It works for one person and is countered by one person. The only real impact of an opinion is the measure of the combined opinions of the majority.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:18 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
The article from an AR14 victim was in our newspaper, and probably others.
Ted Nugent for President!!! Now, after all the others are impeached!!!
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/olympic-a ... und-sand/#


Odd that if the New York legislation was so unconstitutional the Federal ban in 1994 and the ban in Connecticut would have been struck down as a result. The rhetoric and the truth grow farther and farther apart.

I wonder just how many institutional sales Olympic made for their "entry level" version? Cutting nothing from your sales is cutting nothing.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


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