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EnviroLink Forum • View topic - Where is the blue sky?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:50 pm 
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:angel: :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:39 pm 
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After reading the scores on the science and technology quiz, I am wondering whether I should not just explain the humor because most may miss it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:13 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:55 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_water_content

Cirrus cloud - 0.03 g/m^3

H20 1 ml = ~1 g

Thus H20 content = 0.03 ml/m^3

1 gal = 3785.4 ml

converted to cloud = 126180 m^3/gal

1 mile = ~1609 m

If the contrail were 2 meter in diameter, each gallon will give ~25 miles of cirrus like cloud with one engine, 12.5 miles with two engines, and 6.25 miles with 4 engines. Thus 100 gallons for a 4 engine plane could lay a small contrail pattern for 625 miles. As the contrail increases in diameter the length drops significantly.

If the contrail were 4 meter in diameter each gallon would give only 1/4 that of the 2 meter diameter. A 4 meter diameter contrail at 30,000 feet viewed from the ground would be miniscule.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document ... 13-001.pdf

Persistent contrails can last for hours while growing to several
kilometers in width and 200 to 400 meters in height.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:37 am 
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For the various reactions and deaths, go to the Devvy Kidd article and the doctor's link on the bottom.

SURE THE MATH DOESN'T WORK UNDER MANY HUMIDITY/TEMPERATURE/ALTITUDE COMBINATIONS, SO THEY CAN NOT SPRAY IN A USABLE WAY EVERYWHERE, EVERYDAY.

When I sprayed crops and friends did weather modification, we has some hangar flying talks. With my spraying, I had to determine the amount of gallons and amount of which chemical in which concentration per gallon, generally in the range of a gallon per acre. Some farms took several flights.
My friends in their turbo pressurized twins had to figure the area to go so winds would carry induced rainfall to the areas contracted. They, too, often made several flights to the same area per day. It just didn't work if the humidity was too low or the winds not right.
From what I read about the mixture going into near the exhaust flow of jet engines, the amount had to do with the humidity, speed, and temperature at the altitude, and did not require a lot per mile. Much of the H2O was from the exhaust itself.
By 9-11-2011 and the no fly days it was blocking 2-3*F of AGW(depending on the area or city). In the 1990s, Pinatubo blocked 1.5*F of AGW. The original idea was Edward Teller's last writing.
I think the max the so called shield can do is around 5*F cooling in an area, and only in perfect conditions. So AGW and ocean warming added are increasing in the old hockey stick, still. They are running out of money and the world is running out of cheap oil.
I think it is time to stop most of the geoengineering efforts and go for the 90% emissions reduction ASAP. End the jet age, end coal power, end most diesel, and end slash and burn. Let the growth only economy collapse. Whether the chemtrails are real or not.
If they are real, the most important place for them is the Arctic, until the threat of passing the open ocean warming positive feedback loop and the tundra methane positive feedback loop are both back into a safer zone.
If they are not real, we can only hope that these tipping points will not be crossed as AGW morphs to reality as soots settle out, regular contrails go away like 9-11 on steroids, and warming in momentum is not enough. Plus no cheating is allowed with burning fossil fuels and slash without swift and violent stopping. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :mrgreen:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/No-alte ... -down.html

Note---WS full of garbage in statement below.

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Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Sun May 12, 2013 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:57 am 
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The bulk of the moisture being from the natural contrail belies the thought a small amount of spray will cause the contrail to remain for an extended period. Only that small amount of natural moisture coming in contact with the spray and reacting/bonding would be affected and the rest would act just as any other contrail. There just would not be the mixing required to utilize that moisture to any degree.

The math does not work for ANY altitude/moisture/temperature combinations because there is such a small amount being sprayed to supposedly cause such a large cloud to remain. The altitude/moisture/temperatures combinations do have an impact on how long the contrails remain and thus cause the ignorant connection to the assumed "chemtrail" as a result.

Your spraying information alone shows how wrong the math is. You had to calculate gallons per acre at low level applications to have a sufficient concentration on the ground. The chemtrails are limited to less than an ounce per acre applied at ~30,000 feet and the concentraion is supposedly measured on the ground at levels high enough to be differentiated from the natural background? Really? That makes any sense from your experience much less the math?

How much was applied in the cloud seeding on each pass? Less than a few pounds? That is what is supposedly what is used in producing chemtrails from commercial aircraft.

Also you are wrong about the temperature impact. The papers showed a difference between the daily high and low temperatures not the high temperature.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:12 am 
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Mount Pinatubo injected a 20-million ton (metric scale) sulfur dioxide cloud into the stratosphere at an altitude of more than 20 miles. Compared to a few hundred pounds even on every large aircraft flying and not reaching such altitudes the aircraft will have no comparison in effect.

On the temperature impact of contrails, a less complicated explanation than the paper itself:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/contrail-effect.html

Another study that took advantage of the grounding gave striking evidence of what contrails can do. David Travis of the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater and two colleagues measured the difference, over those three contrail-free days, between the highest daytime temperature and the lowest nighttime temperature across the continental U.S. They compared those data with the average range in day-night temperatures for the period 1971-2000, again across the contiguous 48 states. Travis's team discovered that from roughly midday September 11 to midday September 14, the days had become warmer and the nights cooler, with the overall range greater by about two degrees Fahrenheit.

These results suggest that contrails can suppress both daytime highs (by reflecting sunlight back to space) and nighttime lows (by trapping radiated heat). That is, they can be both cooling and warming clouds. But what is the net effect? Do they cool more than they warm, or vice versa? "Well, the assumption is a net warming," Travis says, "but there is a lot of argument still going on about how much of a warming effect they produce."

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:24 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:37 pm 
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They don't usually spray around here much, but my son witnessed something he has not seen here this morning.
He took his dog out around 9AM and watched as numerous overly wide and spreading contrails were made with others crossing in a random pattern. The only airway we are near is the one from COS to LAX heading WSW. Most of the trails were from ESE to WNW and crossers from the south and SW. Within one "15 minutes to a half hour" the sky went from blue to gray.
The effect on my tracking array was a 15% loss of power and on my fixed average sun angle array a 19% reduction when it was straight on a little later. It is moving towards the NE to cover the COS & DEN area.
My observation was of unusual width and very thin streamers at a near 90* angle and dropping as they got further from center.
On the measured barium and aluminum spikes in water supplies on the east coast and in Canadian soils, it was in ppm difference from before. Not a lot, but if you had 4ppm and it went to 40ppm, it would be a spike.
Like I said before, whether it is done or not, what should be done, isn't.
It is no conspiracy theory that emissions are not going down, or at the rate they should be to hopefully stop the positive feedback loops that will complete within around 3 to 11 years, and reach max in 300 to 500 years. Profit now is what counts. Ignorance of black ops is working well, while special interests are taking over from within, and corruption is strangling the land, as economic collapse from interest and devaluation gets closer. 8-[ :-$

Those of us 50 and over saw the best of times \:D/ , and those under 30 will see almost the worst of times :shock: :cry: :twisted: =P~ :!: :?: :problem: :eh: . Those in denial, with their heads in the sand, or ignorant, won't see much, except their own measly little world. :razz: 8) [-( :mrgreen: :-#

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:33 pm 
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