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EnviroLink Forum • View topic - Fence sitters and those who are looking for more information

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:30 am 
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Other references to this thought ...


"... in science there is no 'knowledge', in the sense in which Plato and Aristotle understood the word, in the sense which implies finality; in science, we never have sufficient reason for the belief that we have attained the truth. ... This view means, furthermore, that we have no proofs in science (excepting, of course, pure mathematics and logic). In the empirical sciences, which alone can furnish us with information about the world we live in, proofs do not occur, if we mean by 'proof' an argument which establishes once and for ever the truth of a theory."

Sir Karl Popper, The Problem of Induction, 1953


"If you thought that science was certain — well, that is just an error on your part."

Richard Feynman (1918-1988).


"A religious creed differs from a scientific theory in claiming to embody eternal and absolutely certain truth, whereas science is always tentative, expecting that modification in its present theories will sooner or later be found necessary, and aware that its method is one which is logically incapable of arriving at a complete and final demonstration."

Bertrand Russell, Grounds of Conflict, Religion and Science, 1953.


"It is the aim of science to establish general rules which determine the reciprocal connection of objects and events in time and space. For these rules, or laws of nature, absolutely general validity is required — not proven."

Albert Einstein, in Science, Philosophy and Religion, A Symposium, 1941.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:19 pm 
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http://www.skepticalscience.com/grand-s ... t-AGW.html

More information. =; :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:40 pm 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/scien ... ;_r=0&_r=0

An international panel of scientists has found with near certainty that human activity is the cause of most of the temperature increases of recent decades, and warns that sea levels could conceivably rise by more than three feet by the end of the century if emissions continue at a runaway pace.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:00 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:47 am 
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http://notrickszone.com/2013/09/02/now- ... on-debate/

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:53 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:23 pm 
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The German anti-any-nuclear fails with the logic of the Gen IV waste using safe design. The whole anti-nuclear BS crowd includes in their hatred the very technology that will take base-load power and use up nuclear waste from Gens I, II, & III, a win win scenario.
As far as the importance of reducing emissions 90% in 9 years max, it is number one with things that can be done to stop thermageddon or AETM and its huge ELE in 3 to 500 years at the rate the oceans are warming with the atmosphere. It means the extinction of ~87% of all species including humans. So there is plenty of reason to act fast and in enough quantity to get this reduction.
However, it is the people like you, and the business as usual crowd, that will stop enough emissions reductions in time to prevent it. You condemn the future suffering people and our species, to death, along with most other life, for two Malenkovich cycles, and ~3 million years to increase species diversity to what we had 10K years ago.
If humanity is lucky, Katla will blow soon and take away up to two growing seasons and enough particulates to cool the Earth temporarily. Then not enough people to continue the emissions insanity. The population crash of 2050 or sooner becomes much sooner, and in the end, saves our biosphere and species.
A collapsing world economy could also trigger a die-off. Cascadia and LaPalma tsunamis and earthquakes could disrupt and collapse the US economy, with the world following into deep long depression, with mass die-offs of people. A solar coronal mass discharge that hits the Earth while the magnetic field is now weakening toward reversal, could also do it.
It is really something that for the biosphere and humanity to be "lucky" requires a 90% die-off from a massive geologic or cosmic event, or financial meltdown, all within a decade. Very possible scenarios that would prevent thermageddon and extinction.
However, we can not depend on them, and must attempt to live green with emissions down 90% by 2023. It won't do the future any good if these events happen after complete crossing of the tundra methane self release point, or the open ocean warming to oceanic methane hydrate deposits unstoppably releasing by themselves deeper and deeper, with no more human HGHG input necessary to lead to thermal max(i.e. after 2023). I had said Yellowstone would also do it, maybe too much, but isn't close to due for 2K years, by which time its 10*F temperature reduction for up to ten years will not be enough to reverse the AETM which will be +29 to 32*F by then (with a resequestration time of ~230,000 years).
The fence sitters looking for more information will not like this news, and probably really can't understand it, so will do nothing, making it impossible not to rely on these other hard means to maybe stop even worse down the road.
In fact, I would say, even worse is coming, and sooner than you think. The party is just about over. IMHO

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:46 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:12 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:33 pm 
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http://greedylyingbastards.com/

Poor Milton, thinking all green, sustainability seeking people are leftists.
I'm a registered Republican and Deep Green. Remember Teddy Roosevelt or even Ike :mrgreen: ---they were my guys, not Reagan or bushes.
Nixon was better than them(Clean Air and Water Acts, EPA) :mrgreen: and far better than Obama the socialist. Just because some lefties stole the environmental subject and some dumb Republicans have no belief in overpopulation right in their face =P~ or hot weather worse than ever in their lives if they could but remember. :eh: #-o
The corporations are trying to run and ruin the country, especially with so-called reform that is a lie. Corrupt government is not just one sided, and most special interests are not interested in enforcing laws or the betterment of America. :evil:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:17 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Denialists never seem to get variation within a long term trend. I'm coming to wonder whether it is some kind of genetic thing, since this mindless error in thought process appears so persistent. AGW, including ice melt, does not go up in a straight line. It's more like a trending upward free form run of sine curves. The fairly consistent rise in ocean level would be the most obvious global warming metric.


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