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EnviroLink Forum • View topic - suffering in nature

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:12 am 
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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Hello Letizia.
Your evidence shows that Cobie was right with regards to endorphins & how they work. Have you ever been to a Cancer Ward?? The folks in those wards have all kinds of spooky contraptions stuck in their flesh everywhere but strangely enough those scary looking tubes and things are a blessing that alleviates the pain & suffering although an ARA proponent would think otherwise if seen hooked up to a cat on Utube. BTW. A lot of lab animals are off spring from generations after generations of lab animals & bred specifically for that purpose,so they are not predisposed to be running in the wild or on a leash at the family cottage.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:31 am 
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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:56 am 
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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:34 am 
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No, research on animal is made for 1 business, money, economical interests, social interests (a faster career);
2 ignorance, obscurantism, traditionalism
3 sadism, fun, cruelty

And these reasons are not too different from the conservativism that bring some people to maintain such cruel traditional uses.
Rape, torture and genital mutilation were made to oppress the people in their social and sexual life

https://sites.google.com/site/completebaby/female

and genital mutilation was also performed by lot of doctors.

http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/in ... 6&Itemid=6

Like its male counterpart, circumcision of females has two histories. First it is a ritual or customary practice among tribal societies (mostly in Africa) and some Islamic communities. Secondly it is a medical intervention, justified by Victorian (and, in the USA, some twentieth century) doctors in exactly the same way as they rationalised circumcision of boys: to deter masturbation, to treat obscure nervous disorders such as hysteria, neurasthenia and epilepsy, and thereby to promote health.

Please have a look at the video on animal testing:

http://vimeo.com/68294408


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:30 am 
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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Hi Letizia: I suppose I should not hold my breath for an apology from you for calling me mad when a simple search told you I was correct about endorphins? And deer hunted with hounds are under stress (no suprises there, really) and produce endorphins to cope with that. Do you think this is different from deer hunted down by a wolf pack? And BTW, the conclusion of that quote is bad biology - of course deer have adapted to being hunted by hounds (or wolves) or they would all have been eaten by now. Deer can run and most of them escape wolves (contrary to tv documentaries, many if not most attempts by predators fail). Moreover, when hunting deer with hounds, the deer is actually selected beforehand by people who go out and then let the hunt know where the chosen animal is. And that animal is usually chosen for a reason - an old stag that has come to the end of his reproductive life, or a surplus stag - hinds tend not to be hunted because of being pregnant or nursing offspring.

As for your gratuitous remarks about those who engage in animal research, may I point out, again, that spouting offense is no way to engage with those of whom you disapprove? And that it is up to you to prove your statements? I, as a researcher, do not have to justify myself to you (although I am quite happy to engage in a civilised conversation with someone who although they do not agree with me at least have take the time to make themselves familiar with the practice of doing research. You found the offical web site about this but dismiss it out of hand as just words - is that how you consider the law? Because that is what these words are, law that has to be obeyed); I somehow doubt you can be civil at all, but show me, and others, what is your evidence to back up your offensive remarks - you started it.

So how about it?


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:47 am 
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Cobie,
yes you are right that under stress all animals produce endorphins. But you forget that when an animal is not biologically adapted to the stress condition, he produces also: (i) depletion of carbohydrate resources for powering muscles, (ii) disruption of muscle tissue, and (iii) elevated secretion of beta-endorphin. High concentrations of cortisol, typically associated with extreme physiological and psychological stress

And this situation of emergency in the body, in a long period produces toxicity that destroy serotonin and other substances necessary to the psychic equilibrium.
So the deer can escape or be eaten.
The animals closed in a lab can't escape and the stress is in a long period.
And there is not natural selection in torturing and killing the animals in lab.
Because are mainly used the best, healthy, strong animals.
And the diseases are artificially induced.

Cobie, it is never too late for a change.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:30 am 
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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:40 am 
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Reading the comments about stress by Letizia one would soon recognize that no patient should ever leave the Hospital because they know they have an incurable disease and the stress of that hopelessness should rob them of their ability to reacquire hope. As I noted before ,a lot of folks look at a hospital patient in unbelievable hook-ups & fearsome contraptions knowing that it helps patients and they will tell you they feel discomfort but not real pain. Yet when an ARA views lesser contraptions on a lab subject they think the worst because they want to believe the worst. I feel bad for Letizia because I think she has a very compassionate nature but at the same time I truly believe ARA propaganda is taking advantage of her empathy & blinds her to the reality that Lab research has caused a lot less suffering for billions of pets and people.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Oh, honestly..... stress destroys serotonin? The stress of being hunted does no such thing. Prolonged inescapable stress may eventually affect the serotonin system but being hunted is not in that class. But starvation or disease may be, which is what would happen if deer were not hunted (by humans or non-humans). Already in parts of the US deer are now so numerous (because there are no wolves, and also because deer have moved into human habitat where shooting is not allowed, and where "kind" people feed them) that they are not only starving themselves but causing their whole environment's health to collapse. Please provide evidence (from a real scientific source, not youtube or AV sites) that the stress of being hunted affects the serotonin system. This neuroscientist is always ready to further her education.


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