sushilydv wrote:
Dingo wrote:
...... lowering the population.
The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization - Population is a non issue, A total non issue.
This negates your claims because it can be disproven at face value. If the industrial society were limited to say 1 million people world wide the population size would not be an issue and nor would the industrialzation.
Historical data shows the world population was growing for a long time prior to the industrail revolution. Thus, the impacts of population would be delayed for a time in comparison, but they would still be expected.
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Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.
Not supported by evidence. There are urban centers and overconsumption evidenced well prior to the industrial revolution.
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Moreover, It is not population that destroys environment....It is consumerism that destroys environment.
Again this cannot be supported as 1 person with 10 of the same item has less impact than 10 people with 1 of that item.
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The combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population of 7 billion.....Yet other animal species did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for food.
The comparison of total numbers ignore the varied ecosystems, sizes of the animals, and thus the potential impact is not correct.
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A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for Industrial Activity for production of thousands of consumer goods and services.
An assumption which cannot be supported by evidence. There is no data on such a large hunter/gatherer society, but it is likely that entire species could be wiped out to support one.
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An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for Industrial Activity for production of thousands of consumer goods and services.
Again this is unsupported, but indications of impact on the Sahara region seem to indicate otherwise.
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[By the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]
Possibly, but given the additional time to expand they might have been able to expand past the environmental destruction their numbers would cause.
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Industrial Society has destroyed most of the biodiversity and ecosystems in just 250/ 100 years [Most of the world became heavily industrialized only in the last 100 years] because it destroyed environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
The speed is documented, however the effect of other societies while being slower would have the same upper limits in theory.
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If Industrialization had not happened, there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.
Maybe and maybe not. It would not have happened as quickly, but it clearly was not eliminated entirely.
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Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen at the same time.
No, the historical record does not support this claim.
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It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.
The people were created by industry?
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The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.
The definitions seem to be modified to try to make the case.
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There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD.....
A positive growth all along.
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After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.
The family size 200 years did not immediately drop to the low level listed. The decline in family size was gradual and did not hit the lower levels until after the development of effective contraception. Contraception for birth control was also a product of industrialization.
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If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.
However, still showing growth and still causing a proportionally greater impact on the environment.
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If Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.
But a what level would that have been?
The premise has been presented and all connections have been modified to fit the premise, which does not supprt anything other than the intial belief was strong enough to cause such modifications.