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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 10:14 pm 
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flogger wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Really? The increse of CO2 in the atmosphere by ~40%, the measured changes in outgoing radiation as a result, combined with record warming measurments are not detection?


It doesnt matter what the CO2 is doing but what the temperature is doing and that is well within natural post glacial variability. CO2 is a red herring or that would not be the case


Your reputable references for this claim are where?

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Quote:
So you do not understand how to separate the carbon cycle from emissions or you are not honest enough to do so? Emissions being discussed are the release of previously sequestered carbon not the short term carbon cycle.


There is no such thing as good CO2 vs bad CO2 . There is only CO2 the only directly measurable effect of which has been a greening of the planet over the last 30 years.


So you are dishonestly ignorant then. There is a carbon which is part of the carbon cycle and there is a carbon which has been sequestered form the carbon cycle for millions of years. The sequestered carbon becomes a proble when too much of it is released. The concentration is critical for any compound.

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http://www.itwire.com/science-news/climate/60575-rising-co2-level-making-earths-deserts-bloom-csiro-study

Whats not to like ?


I don't know, aren't you all the ones ranting against models?

"Our work was able to tease-out the CO2 fertilisation effect by using mathematical modelling together with satellite data adjusted to take out the observed effects of other influences such as precipitation, air temperature, the amount of light, and land-use changes."

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That result is a possibility either way. The longer we wait to act the greater the probability becomes


Nonsense. Todays conditions are perfectly normal and well within post glacial natural variability
[/quote]

Not according to the reconstructions over the last 1000 years and according to the statistians the data farther back is much less certain due to the sparse coverage and limited data sets.

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:53 am 
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Our energy comes form the sun, so if there were not something like increased concentrations of a known GHG or particulates the temperature would track solar output. There has been no cooling below the solar scale so particulates are not having as large of an effect. The temperature has continually climbedoutside of the solar output track so there must be a retention of energy brought about by our increasing the GHG concentration in the atmosphere.

Image

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:18 pm 
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We have those who still are ignorant of AGW making it so reductions in population and emissions have not really even initiated. The ultra conservative political IPCC says 80% reduction by 2040. 350.org had the best with a 90% reduction by 2023. However, this year we may be crossing that methane monster tipping point. We will see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILahdcT7Usw

This isn't the bogeyman under the bed, but real tragedy for our biosphere, with incredible misery and suffering going with it.
To all life forms, and possibly not for just a few million years but permanently sterilizing the planet.
I know that IF everyone did what I did WHEN I did it, the world would be nearing sustainability instead of extinction.
Thanks all you deniers and evil profiteers, for just about guaranteeing that the reaction would be too little too late to interfere with their measly little lives of luxury, or stop the methane turnover process. :x :cry: :evil: [-X :twisted: =; :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Johhny seriously start taking your lithium again.

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:08 pm 
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You are busted Milt, get out of here forever!!!

Answers to the top ten global warming 'skeptic' arguments
http://www.skepticalscience.com/answers ... ments.html

Climate change is clear and present danger, says landmark US report
National Climate Assessment, to be launched at White House on Tuesday, says effects of climate change are now being felt
Suzanne Goldenberg US environment correspondent
theguardian.com, Sunday 4 May 2014 10.50 EDT
"Climate change has moved from distant threat to present-day danger and no American will be left unscathed, according to a landmark report due to be unveiled on Tuesday.

The National Climate Assessment, a 1,300-page report compiled by 300 leading scientists and experts, is meant to be the definitive account of the effects of climate change on the US. It will be formally released at a White House event and is expected to drive the remaining two years of Barack Obama's environmental agenda."
Of course increasing population from amnesties and increased legal immigration, ruin all efforts to lower emissions enough.

The Meteoric Rise of Carbon Dioxide in 1 Video
Published: May 5th, 2014 By Brian Kahn
"April set a carbon dioxide milestone by averaging 400 parts per million for the entire month. That’s uncharted territory over the course of human history, and a new data visualization makes clear just how high and fast it has risen.

The march to 400 ppm might seem slow by human standards, rising just one or two parts per million each year, but it’s a veritable sprint by geological standards. We know this from ice cores, which contain air bubbles that give snapshots of carbon dioxide levels over the past 800,000 years. Modern atmospheric measurements are taken at observatories around the globe including one at Mauna Loa, Hawaii, which has been taking continuous measurements since the late 1950s.
An animation from the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences makes clear that though there have been variations over time, the current rise is unparalleled. The animation zooms in on the graph of temperatures, often times referred to as the Hockey Stick for its distinctive shape, and shows the granular changes over time. It’s clear that there are long swings taking CO2 levels anywhere from 175 ppm up to 300 ppm."
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/the- ... ideo-17398

Airborne Study Shows Colorado Oil and Gas Wells Leaked 3 Times More Methane Than EPA Estimates
Brandon Baker | May 8, 2014 10:58 am | Comments

"Scientists from a multi-agency partnership went airborne to discover that some greenhouse gases leaked up to seven times more from Colorado’s largest oil and gas than regulators previously estimated.

Researchers with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES) at the University of Colorado Boulder led the peer-reviewed study in 2012 and have now received approval for publication in the American Geophysical Union’s Journal of Geophysical Research—Atmospheres."
http://ecowatch.com/2014/05/08/airborne ... estimates/

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:52 am 
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Why would a report from the White House carry any weight in the scientific community? You have demonstrated what I have said all along. This isn't science its politics. And, this report is a joke.

http://www.c3headlines.com/2014/05/obam ... festo.html

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The 2014 climate-doomsday assessment report recently issued by the White House and Democrat cronies has not been well received by actual climate scientists.

The report is a compilation of every scary climate prophecy imaginable, most of which are highly speculative with little, if any, likelihood of happening.

Ahem.....yes, Virginia, you are more likely of being struck by lightening exactly between the eyeballs than suffering through any of the
Democrats' climate doomsday scenarios.

Besides the White House's extreme scare-mongering, the report's credibility is also D.O.A. due to its blatant falsehood regarding "CO2-caused" warming of the globe and the U.S.


===> "The government’s newest national assessment of climate change declares that increased global warming is affecting every part of the United States."

From a vast array of empirical reports (here and here), recent research and widely disseminated media reports, it has been well verified that the "expert" predicted accelerating freight train of dangerous global warming has been stopped cold in its tracks.

Obama's assessment: it completely ignores this major climate reality that so dramatically differs from the previous global warming alarmism speculations


How can we trust the White House on this or any other political topic?

Quote:
Doomsday predictions that do not comport with any known climate reality on Earth (again, view above graphs).

Unfortunately, reality has not kept this White House from misleading Americans on a wide range of issues, including Obamacare; the Benghazi terrorism attack; the IRS politicization; the NSA's illegal spying on Americans; the Operation 'Fast & Furious' fiasco; and etc.

Thus, Obama's climate assessment report utilizes the same lie-at-all-costs tactics as the previous instances. This report is just another attempt to bamboozle the public.

"5 reasons voters don’t believe the White House about global warming: OVERREACH, HYPOCRISY, AGENDA-DRIVEN, UNILATERAL, NOT CREDIBLE" - that's how the Washington Post assesses Obama's assessment.

And of course, when this latest fear-report fails to convince the public, the liberals' anti-science approach will then embrace other tried and true "professional" tactics

Pretty harsh words from the left of center Washington Post. You have a problem if those guys aren't on board.
How about another. Okay.

http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/05/07/ ... istortion/

Quote:
Heartland Institute's James Taylor: Obama climate report exposed: ‘Leading authors of this report include staffers for activist groups like the Union of Concerned Scientists, Planet Forward, The Nature Conservancy, and Second Nature’

Prominent scientist reverses belief in AGW: ‘One of the most eminent climate scientists, the Swede Lennart Bengtsson, has defected to the camp of climate skeptics’ - Bengtsson’s conclusion: 'It would be wrong to conclude from the IPCC report and similar reports that the science is settled.'

Climatologist Dr. Roger Pielke Sr. denounces ‘failure’ of new Fed Report: ‘That much of the media accepted the NCA without questioning its findings and conclusions either indicates they are naive or they have chosen to promote a particular agenda and this report fits their goal’

Climatologist Dr. Judith Curry rips Obama climate report for ‘false premise that any change in the 20th century has been caused by AGW. Worse yet is the spin being put on this by the Obama admin.’

1974 State Of The Climate Report '1974 climate report said that global cooling was going to cause floods, famines, extreme weather, and would kill us all.'

CEI's Marlo Lewis: Obama Climate Report ‘designed to scare people and build political support for unpopular policies such as carbon taxes’


Meteorologist Anthony Watts: Report ‘looks more like a glossy sales pitch from a company that is pushing a product they know people may not need’

Physicist: ‘Another work of science fiction has been produced by global warming alarmist ‘scientists’

Climatologist Dr. Roy Spencer pans – ‘Follow the money’ - Part of report ‘is just simply made up’ – ‘There is no fingerprint of human-caused versus naturally-caused climate change’

Climatologists: PAUL C. "CHIP" KNAPPENBERGER and PATRICK J. MICHAELS: 'The idea that human-caused global warming is going to increase heat-related mortality is simply outdated and wrong. In fact, the opposite is more likely the case—that is, a warming climate will decrease the population’s sensitivity to heat events as it induces adaptation.'

Meteorologist Joe D’Aleo Rips New Alarmist Report: ‘Get ready for more Junk Science from the highly paid Obama psuedo scientists this week'

Prof. Roger Pielke Jr. on new fed report: Claim: ‘Risks associated with extreme events like hurricanes are increasing’ – Pielke Jr. Rebuttal: ‘Actually: US hurricane landfalls have decreased by ~25% since 1900′

Climatologist Dr. John Christy: Obama’s climate report ‘does not bring out in clear view for the public to see how poorly climate models have performed’

Weather Channel Co-Founder John Coleman slams Federal climate report:’600 page litany of doom’: - A ‘total distortion of the data and agenda driven, destructive episode of bad science gone berserk’

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:30 pm 
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So Milton and his sources do not understand the US is not the world and a regional trend does not prove or disprove anything on the global scale? That is what the lack of a science education does for you.

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Wayne, I do not see why you allow that denialist name caller to even spout his crap here.
This makes it even harder to mitigate away from the Arctic Death Spiral;
Russian Wildfires Blaze on an Area Larger than Los Angeles
By Tom Yulsman | May 5, 2014 1:01 pm
"The images that comprise this mosaic of a large portion of Russia were captured on Monday, April 5 by NASA's Terra satellite. Red dots mark areas where a sensor on the spacecraft detected fire.

The images that comprise this mosaic showing a large portion of Russia were captured on Monday, April 5 by NASA’s Terra satellite. Red dots mark areas where a sensor on the spacecraft detected fire. (Source: NASA)

With geopolitical fires continuing to smolder between Russia and Ukraine, actual wildfires have erupted across a vast swath of territory to the east.

You can spot the Russian wildfires in the mosaic of satellite images above showing a large portion of the country as it looks from space today. Each red dot marks a spot on the ground where a sensor on NASA’s Terra satellite has detected fire.

More than 100 fires are burning today on 140,471 hectares, which is equal to 542 square miles, according to The Voice of Russia Radio. That’s half again as large as the City of Los Angeles.

Fires are burning in the Irkutsk region, the Omsk region, near Lake Baikal, and other areas."
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/image ... s-angeles/

More for milt and his ilk;
Answers to the top ten global warming 'skeptic' arguments :lolno: #-o :razz: :lol: :mrgreen: \:D/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/answers ... ments.html

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Solution: reduce emissions 20% per year(for <5 years) and population 5% per year(for >10 years). In addition to being near emissions free through any means necessary(like forcing a population crash and volcanic winter), we also have to increase the absorption of CO2 and other GHGs. Clean the oceans, and replenish the soils.
Back on subject.
Then there are several due geologic events that could start a population crash and/or a partial volcanic winter. A large human population crash within a decade, may reduce emissions enough. Diseases in very large scales, nuclear war well within thresholds of not killing the biosphere, or blow Yellowstone and Toba, also all within THIS decade.
God could violate His Laws of physics and make the world right, but I would not count on it.[/b]

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“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Mon May 26, 2014 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:14 pm 
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for comic relief just say f**k it!
Stephen Colbert’s refreshing solution for fighting climate change

By Amber Cortes

"It’s been a bummer couple of weeks when it comes to apocalyptic climate change news. First, the National Climate Assessment came out, letting us know that, hey, climate change got our invitation and may be showing up a little early to the party – in fact, it’s already in the corner eating all the dip, guzzling all the drinks, and trying to light the couch on fire. Then, that darn West Antarctic ice sheet decided it had enough and is in irreversible collapse.

“It is so terrifying,” Stephen Colbert says, “that it left a carbon footprint … in my pants.”"

http://grist.org/climate-energy/find-cl ... aign=daily

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Here are a few things you wouldn’t do on a spaceship:

1. Disassemble it in order to create jobs and have a robust economy
2. Pack it with more people than it can sustainably support
3. Consume more food or water than its stores can supply for the duration of the voyage
4. Smoke, fart, urinate or defecate beyond the processing ability of its systems
5. Pay attention to its maintenance just one day a year

Why Smart People are Afraid to Talk About Overpopulation

1. You’ll be called a racist.
(It’s assumed you’re only concerned about birth rates in sub-Saharan Africa, where fertility rates are highest.)

2. You’ll be told to mind your own business.
(How dare you suggest I moderate my reproductivity? Stay out of my bedroom! The right to reproduce is widely considered sacred.)

3. You’ll be labeled anti-progress.
(Our Ponzi economy needs a steady supply of more workers, consumers & taxpayers.)

4. You’ll be called a selfish bastard.
(You want other people to give up parenthood so you can keep overconsuming?)

5. You’ll be called a racist, again.
(In many nations immigration accounts for most of the population growth, so if you bring up overpopulation it’s assumed you are talking about immigration and you must not respect immigrants
both from Growthbusters.
Here is a previous post on how to mitigate CAGW;
"Solution: reduce emissions 20% per year(for <5 years) and population 5% per year for >10 years). In addition to being near emissions free through any means necessary(we may HAVE to blow Yellowstone), we also have to increase the absorption of CO2 and other GHGs. Clean the oceans, and replenish the soils.
Back on subject.
Then there are several due geologic events that could start a population crash and/or a partial volcanic winter. A large human population crash within a decade, may reduce emissions enough. Diseases in very large scales, nuclear war well within thresholds of not killing the biosphere, also all within a decade.
God could violate His Laws of physics and make the world right, but I would not count on it."
Look at three scenarios; 1.) denialists and the fossil fuel industry are too powerful and greedy to shut it down as necessary to mitigate CAGW to a non-extinction event. Tipping points are breached and a worse than Permian ELE happens, quite probably the Venus Effect and no life on Earth ever again.
2.) people rise up to the challenge of not going extinct, but do too little too late and the above happens.
3.) people get it together and reduce emissions 95% by 2020 and in 400 years the climate is back to interglacial norms.
If scientists are wrong somehow and we have eliminated fossil fuel and other HGHG pollution, the worst thing is a cleaner Earth.
The way of denialists is to have our biosphere collapse with extreme extinction at the worst, and if we do nothing, we are still stuck with all the pollution to get rid of, at the best.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Open Access

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Research Article

Future Arctic climate changes: Adaptation and mitigation time scales


Authors

James E. Overland,



Open Access

Creative Commons

Research Article

Future Arctic climate changes: Adaptation and mitigation time scales


Authors

James E. Overland, + 3 others

"The climate in the Arctic is changing faster than in mid latitudes. This is shown by increased temperatures, loss of summer sea ice, earlier snow melt, impacts on ecosystems, and increased economic access. Arctic sea ice volume has decreased by 75% since the 1980s. Long-lasting global anthropogenic forcing from carbon dioxide has increased over the previous decades and is anticipated to increase over the next decades. Temperature increases in response to greenhouse gases are amplified in the Arctic through feedback processes associated with shifts in albedo, ocean and land heat storage, and near-surface long wave radiation fluxes. Thus, for the next few decades out to 2040, continuing environmental changes in the Arctic are very likely, and the appropriate response is to plan for adaptation to these changes. For example, it is very likely that the Arctic Ocean will become seasonally nearly sea ice free before 2050 and possibly within a decade or two, which in turn will further increase Arctic temperatures, economic access, and ecological shifts. Mitigation becomes an important option to reduce potential Arctic impacts in the second half of the 21st century. Using the most recent set of climate model projections (CMIP5), multi-model mean temperature projections show an Arctic-wide end of century increase of +13°C in late fall and +5°C in late spring for a business-as-usual emission scenario (RCP8.5) in contrast to +7°C in late fall and +3°C in late spring if civilization follows a mitigation scenario (RCP4.5). Such temperature increases demonstrate the heightened sensitivity of the Arctic to greenhouse gas forcing."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced ... 3EF000162/

It is an interesting article, but does not have the data from this year's jump in Arctic temperatures (with fires) in Siberia.
Of course the sea ice extent in early September is also needed info, and mostly the real estimated GTs of CO2 equivalency of oceanic plus tundra methane releases. When that number becomes over 36, the tipping point is passed and geometric warming increases. It was 18 last year.......
Drawing the curve from actual data gives us a more reasonably certain amount of time left to lower emissions and how much (or blow two super-volcanoes). [-o<

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Well, we need all the help we can get;
Climate CoLab thinks you could be the one to fix global warming
By Samantha Larson
"This is part of a series exploring how collective intelligence can create a better world. Read the whole series here.

Think you’ve landed on the solution to the global warming crisis, if only you could get someone to hear you out?"
http://grist.org/climate-energy/climate ... aign=daily

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:46 pm 
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http://ecowatch.com/2014/06/03/solar-pa ... solaronit/
16 Groups to Host Solar Parties, Unveil Technologies and #PutSolarOnIt During National Day of Action
Brandon Baker | June 3, 2014 12:21 pm | Comments

"Solar house parties, church celebrations, solar workshops and more will combine to make June 21 a very big day.

It’s the longest day of the year, the first day of summer and the day when 16 organizations will encourage the world to #PutSolarOnIt.

Sure social media will help spread the word, but the day figures to be about much more than campaigns on Twitter or Instagram. It will be equal parts fun and business, as some groups will host gatherings while others will unveil new technologies that will help the solar industry continue the dominant year that began with more new electricity generation than any other power source.
Solar energy will be celebrated on large scale June 21, 2014 on a National Day of Action. Photo credit: Fidelity Home Energy/TwitterSolar energy will be celebrated on large scale June 21, 2014 on a National Day of Action. Photo credit: Fidelity Home Energy/Twitter

“The overwhelming judgment of science is that we need to act on climate. Solar energy is a win-win solution: This growing sector can create jobs, bring savings to consumers and reduce the production of dangerous carbon pollution that causes climate change,” the staff of The Climate Reality Project, one of the participating organizations, writes in an announcement of the day.

“All across America there are opportunities to #PutSolarOnIt—to turn our homes, our churches, our schools our lands and our neighborhood rooftops into solutions to climate change.”"
http://ameg.me/
AMEG’s Declaration (Arctic Methane Emergency Group)
"Governments must get a grip on a situation which IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, has ignored. A strategy of mitigation and adaptation is doomed to fail. It will be impossible to adapt to the worst consequences of global warming, as IPCC suggests.
The Arctic must be cooled, ASAP, to prevent the sea ice disappearing with disastrous global consequences. Rapid warming in the Arctic, as sea ice retreats, has already disrupted the jet stream. The resulting escalation in weather extremes is causing a food crisis which must be addressed before the existing conflicts in Asia and Africa spread more widely."
Even Republican voters support Obama’s new climate rule

By John Upton
Republicans not listening to leaders on climate

"Republican politicians are railing against President Obama’s new draft power-plant pollution rules, portraying them as job killers that will leave the economy in unrecognizable tatters.

President’s new nat’l energy tax will condemn families to higher bills & fewer paychecks for years to come. j.mp/1kiElPY—
Speaker John Boehner (@SpeakerBoehner) June 02, 2014

But their rank-and-file voters haven’t yet gotten the message.
The latest Washington Post-ABC News poll, conducted from Thursday to Sunday as the media was ramping up coverage ahead of the rules’ release, included this question: “Do you think the federal government should or should not limit the release of greenhouse gases from existing power plants in an effort to reduce global warming?”
Not only did 70 percent of all respondents reply in the affirmative, but more than twice as many Republicans said “yes” as said “no.”"
http://grist.org/news/even-republican-v ... aign=daily
or is this already planned?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5jcBWzB3nM

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Republican EPA Chiefs: No Excuse for Congressional Climate Inaction
Hearing meant to highlight some bipartisanship on EPA's new climate plan did more to expose the deep partisan divide over the issue.
By John H. Cushman Jr., InsideClimate News
Jun 18, 2014
"Sen. John Barrasso of Wyoming, a Republican, speaks at an Environment and Public Works Subcommittee hearing on Tuesday. At the hearing, four former Republican EPA administrators told Congress that it must step up to the responsibility of tackling climate change. Credit: C-Span

By inviting four former Republican heads of the Environmental Protection Agency to testify in favor of prompt climate change action, Democrats on a Senate committee hoped to highlight some degree of bipartisan support for the EPA's crackdown on carbon emissions from power plants.

The four duly defended the agency and disputed the notion that air pollution regulations are harmful to the economy. They also declared their acceptance of the established science on man-made global warming as an increasingly compelling reason to cut emissions."
http://insideclimatenews.org/carbon-cop ... e-inaction

That is right, the higher educated members of the party, at least 42%, are green republicans like me. \:D/ :mrgreen:

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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