EnviroLink Forum

To provide a little balance here this study indicates that addressing population is pretty close to a waste of time. The demographics of growth are simply built in so short of a complete disaster involving the loss of billions of folks the only real action is dealing with carbon emissions and presumably upgraded consumption etc.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/1 ... on-growth/

Another take on how short of disaster the population side of the equation appears to be close to intractable.

http://conservationbytes.com/2014/10/28 ... p-quickly/

As stated in the top link, only a very large reduction in human numbers will lower emissions significantly enough.
Then in the second one, " Humanity isn’t notorious for forward thinking"---I have agree with that also.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

November 6 2014, 2.26pm EST

No quick fix for overpopulation — let’s focus on climate

"The rise in population since 1900 has been so rapid that up to 14% of all humans that have ever lived are still alive today, according to recent research.
Corey Bradshaw and Barry Brook at the University of Adelaide argue in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that the even a global one-child policy, or the catastrophic death of billions of people, would not slow population growth enough to reduce carbon emissions and resource use.
If you have two children, your carbon legacy could be forty times higher than any savings you make.
Is population control the solution?

But all of this may be irrelevant in light of the important research conducted by Bradshaw and Brook. Their research shows that:


No matter what levers you pull, we have such a huge demographic momentum, there’s no way we can rein in the human population fast enough to address sustainability issues in the next century.

Population growth trends for the rest of the 21st Century are “virtually locked-in” unless there are “extreme and rapid reductions in female fertility”.

Even a global one-child policy and the catastrophic death of several billion people, they argued, would not materially affect CO2 emissions and resource use; the result would still be 5 to 10 billion people by 2100.

The authors of the research ultimately conclude that “there are no easy ways to change the broad trends of human population size this century”.
http://theconversation.com/no-quick-fix ... %20climate

Actually, reducing population to zero emissions could happen in several ways;
1st is the effect of the dollar being devaluated on initiating a global deep depression that starves billions.
2nd is the effect on the economy of a huge catastrophe like Cascadia on initiating a global deep depression that starves billions.
3rd is the same from the La Palma Tsunami on initiating a global deep depression that starves billions.
4th is the effect of a volcanic winter caused by Katla on initiating a global deep depression that starves billions.
5th is the effect of a super-volcano eruption with ten year global winter and temporary 10*F cooling with a population bottleneck,
similar to Toba 74,600 years ago. One out of a thousand people survive, but the biosphere is saved from global terminal extinction worse than the Permian "Great Dying".
Another could be too late, the known 2036 small asteroid impact..........

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Here we go with un-needed US overpopulation. 43 million born in a country that was already overpopulated and who did not help in WWII victory or the Moon Landings, plus at least 30 million illegals hiding like ticks......
"Alexandria, VA (December 2, 2014) - Negative Population Growth (NPG) President Donald Mann has denounced President Obama's new plan for unilateral action on immigration. Released on November 20, the new White House plan confers de facto resident status on more than five million illegal aliens now here, assuring future new waves of family reunification and illegal entries.
Mann cited a November 6th Forum paper authored by NPG Senior Advisor David Simcox, which stated: "The 41.3 million foreign-born residents recorded in 2013 is easily the largest number in U.S. history. America's role as the world population sink is apparent in these numbers: a nation with only 4.5 percent of the world's population now accommodates 18 percent of all its immigrants."
Mann concluded: "America's biggest challenge in the coming decades is to put the brakes on immigration and focus on how we can best reverse population growth. In all, respect for our nation's laws - rather than scoring political points - is essential if we are going to craft responsible immigration policies and meet our obligation to leave our children and grandchildren a livable and sustainable future."

Scientific American's Mark Fischetti recently brought to light a recent revision by the United Nations that presents shocking projections on world population. Fischetti states that current population stands at 7.2 billion. He then notes: "A few years ago leading calculations had global population peaking at 9 billion by 2070 and then easing to 8.4 billion by 2100." He goes on to report: "Recently the U.N. revised these numbers steeply upward: the population is now expected to rise to 9.6 billion by 2050 and continue to 10.9 billion by 2100."

What changed? The continent of Africa is the focus of the major increase. Adrian Raferty, a statistician at the University of Washington, assessed the revised estimates and says that earlier models "had anticipated that fertility rates in Africa would drop, but they haven't." The Scientific American graph (above) explains "the big surprise" in Africa's spike in population is also assisted by the fact that death rates from AIDS have eased (the current Ebola crisis is not part of this assessment). The graph also indicates that "the population of Asia will be slightly higher, while that of Latin America will be lower." Fischetti ends his report with the statement: "How the world will feed a few billions more people is the question of the day."

http://www.npg.org

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

The "Bracero Program" of extra green cards during WWII was helpful in the reduced manpower from those going to war. The Mexican government was notorious for letting in German spies, while moslems were also on the Nazi side.
Americans tried to get agricultural jobs have been turned away by armed gangs of latinos claiming it all for themselves. When AZ hit the restaurant business 40K Americans showed up to apply for the several thousand vacated jobs.
Only the subset of low IQ welfare generations are the ones who do not want the jobs.
The lowering general learning speed has given us a world of mainly people who can not even learn to build a house in reasonable time, let alone install their own solar or afford it. Obviously, sustainability is not understood by the dumb masses.
As soon as we actually enforce the 1986 laws AS PROMISED by Ted Kennedy and his ilk, then we can have another "Eisenhower Sweep" to get the anti-Americans and freeloaders, and illegals and their encouragers out, imprisoned and fined as per law. A lower US population means lower emissions, but NOT the 90% needed in less than a decade. That will take even more effort and must be done.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Sorry dude but this is the kind of racial prejudice that hijacks the movement to seriously deal with overpopulation. And a lot of your history is bunk as far as I know. Any of your friends been runoff the lettuce fields by illegals? And those Nazi spies coming in from Mexico were a real problem - sure. Want to document that? How about all the white American Germans who supported Hitler. Kind of forgot about that didn't you?

I notice you nicely avoided the issue of sanctioning employers for hiring illegals. That would close up shop fast. Americans mainly have been getting a free ride from low paid illegals. Cheap quality uncomplaining labor doing everything from building their houses, harvesting their food, to wiping grandmas ass keeps a lot of this country floating.

Our neediness is encouraging illegal labor and the consequent contribution to overpopulation.

There were stories from numerous people, to newspapers, and on various forums, who got kicked out of fields from lettuce to onions to fruits in mainly southern states, but including CA and WA. In my home state of Minnesota, union meat packers and butchers were entirely laid off and replaced with illegals and legals that never should have been allowed. Same with some chicken farmers, cattle ranchers, and organic and mech farmers.
The destruction to construction by the gross over and illegal immigration, started in the late 1970s with them taking most PHX concrete jobs, including slabs poured without compaction, or footings! Then they took over brick laying, then stucco, not just there but everywhere it hit with the effect called "ripple" going on up to even foreman wages, and other trades they really were bad at, like carpentry. Roofing, sheetrock, landscaping---they undercut with under the table cash and no taxes, some with phony IDs, about 50% estimated--THAT is a FELONY. Good solid tradesmen could not find work and had their wages stagnate for 20 years. Like MINE!!! After I was a pro pilot, I was a carpenter foreman for 23 years, 20 of which, the wages stagnated, while inflation caused by overpopulation ate away until I was making as much as I did as an apprentice!! It cost me personally 160x12x24x10---over 400K in lost wages!!!. I've got many stories of Mex crap work and materials waste from it.
Did you ever read the well done book "The Bell Curve"? That was REAL!!! If you'd have been around the past 65 years like me, you should be able to see it well. Reality is called racism, and that sucks. I was there for MLK and JFK to say "Equal Opportunity for equal qualifications regardless of race." Then what happened ruined my flying career because it became reverse discrimination with me paying for slavery when no one in my family ever owned slaves and fought for the Union. I was disabled by being shot down while performing UNARMED medical evac and was not supposed to ever lift heavy items again. I wasn't supposed to work construction, but had to and made foreman in two years.
The way I FEEL about it is pissed off. Many years of agonizing pain because of this BS racism against whites. The fact is that a chimp has an IQ of about 40 and the average Mex or black is 80, and I am 138. They are closer to monkeys than I am to THEM!!!! They couldn't even copy me right!

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Again JE you leave out the absence of employer sanctions. Of course I'm going to hire cheaper labor if I can get away with it. And I never met anybody who felt they had been forced out of the lettuce fields. The lemon pickers which I know something about as far as locals were mainly drunks, really not worth hiring.

As for the bell curve it is based on what you test for. I think you should test folks to find out what they are good at. We need folks in all sorts of different fields. No doubt in an IQ test Hitler would have probably tested quite high. Do we need more Hitlers?

As for overpopulation it was the Europeans who screwed things up. The Native Americans were doing pretty nicely as far as living in balance with their environment. Would you say the whites flunked the population bell curve?

Oh yeah, I had a roommate who was a child of Okies who were agricultural pickers. They never had any problem getting jobs and followed the crops just like the Mexicans. No doubt the Mexicans helped keep the wages down but then again that gets back to the lack of employer sanctions on hiring illegals. And guess who was lobbying in Washington to keep that arrangement?

Sorry about your problems dude but I just don't see how you can blame that on race but of course I didn't live your life. I've worked in the building trades with various races and didn't see any minority getting a leg up. Part of the reason for racial affirmative action I recall is the white trade unions, particularly in the building trades, were keeping jobs restricted, through apprentice selections, to family and friends. But like anything else there was no doubt some abuse, sort of a human tendency to over correct.

Anyway I get the overpopulation part of the analysis. Who do I blame that on mostly? The forced birth fascists(Right to lifers), mainly white and employers resisting sanctions on illegal hiring, mainly white. Need we mention the "be fruitful and multiply" ideology of various Christian denominations.

Dingo--"Anyway I get the overpopulation part of the analysis. Who do I blame that on mostly? The forced birth fascists(Right to lifers), mainly white and employers resisting sanctions on illegal hiring, mainly white. Need we mention the "be fruitful and multiply" ideology of various Christian denominations."
All that is correct, but incomplete. One of the laws not enforced anywhere near enough is the 20K fine for EACH illegal hired. Forced birth fascists are part of the larger group of religious and cults, and we also have certain groups and cultures who breed like they are oblivious to the obvious. In many years of study and observation, I have noted the highest TBR (true birth rate) among the lowest spectrum of IQ, regardless of race, and with the case of Hispanics, even the higher IQ are so culturally adapted to large families that they too over-breed. The average is 20 points lower for blacks and Hispanics, and immigration of ones that were not on the 1924 list has been a big part of the dumbing down of America by 6 points since the 1965 LBJ/TedK fiasco.
There is more. Government workers who get free kids and a raise for each, also have a very high TBR. Still, no where near as bad as Mormons or moslems.
It has been said by Hispanics that they are having 'reconquista' by the simple expedient of having too many kids. The moslems are also doing it. None seem to realize that overpopulation is immoral and the root cause of all ecological problems (along with sinful lust, greed, and stupidity). "Replenish the Earth" comes before "fill the Earth" and that certainly did not mean over-populate! They just blindly skip over the most important and first Commandment from God.
The only ones not over-breeding are those over 120 IQ who are also not greedy(i.e. NOT Steven Spielberg). This is estimated with years of obit studies. People who have knowledge and care about the biosphere, and walk the talk, are far too few and die off with the rest. It is too bad that there has not been speciation, with die off of the over-breeding numbskulls.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

As I indicated before the Europeans came over here and bred like flies unlike the more restrained Native Americans. Different groups use different strategies at different times. This race IQ garbage is a waste of time as far as I'm concerned. If you want to divert away from a serious critique of overpopulation just keep pushing that stuff. Provide both the opportunity and encouragement to birth control and watch all sorts of people get on board.

I kind of despair of any solution to anything because folks inevitably hijack even the most important issues and turn them to their own obsessions.

It wasn't that the Solutrians were restrained, it was the mortality rate starting with babies on up to old people at 40. Remember, that white people were Solutrians, too!!! They broke off and went North then West, while the others went to France and Germany, where they ended up making skin boats and crossed the N Atlantic on the edge of the ice, hunting seals and fish. One group left and went on an Eastern Exodus. They became the Mongolians, with blending into the Aboriginals south, became Chinese and Japanese, and 'Indians" in a voyage, island to island across the N Pacific. Later other groups crossed the valley between tall glaciers that opened up 12K years ago and called the 'Land Bridge'.
I think the best of the American Indians got killed by the Spanish, and later other Europeans and Indians. The ones left were the least fit.
Slavery, which still goes on today, was started very long ago as an accepted practice. I don't know why. That also caused a lowering of fitness.
A very great many in Asia developed the negative trait of crowd tolerance.
In the world now dumbing down, and becoming obese, because corporations have been allowed to add chemicals and sugars to sell more, for more greed. Ways of stopping overpopulation since known well in the 1960s, have not worked. Education, birth control, sterilizations, were never enough. China's one child policy recently revoked never reduced their gross overpopulation.
Overpopulation was caused by lack of predation starting with the mega fauna extinction from the Folsom Point technology. Then gunpowder, and fossil fuels reduced predators and made food easier to transport and grow as mechanization set in. Biochemical tech got us less mortality, and wars quit being selective and went to non-selective, then negatively selective, with the downfall of the best and the growth of the worst of humanity.
I told you who was overbreeding the worst and why, yet you fall into your racist crap without apparently thinking or doing any of your own LONG TERM RESEARCH! I have done it and reported here

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Pretty much what I expect racists to do, bloviate a lot of historical weirdness and attach it to their race hate obsessions.

Don't worry you guys have won. You probably know it which is why your only solution is to blow up Yellowstone or whatever.

That was a crap mouth remark if I ever saw one!
Calling a population scientist racist is about like calling a frog a horse. Idiotic.
I thought you had a brain, Dingo.
or maybe it is just that you don't have enough knowledge and education.
EVERYTHING I WROTE IS THE TRUTH! FACE UP TO IT!!

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

People who peddle race crap are simply not serious about the overpopulation issue. What possible useful purpose does it serve regarding overpopulation other than to promote racial genocide?

Just from a pragmatic point of view it ends the conversation and makes it solely focus on race. Sorry dude, but that kind of stuff really belongs on Stormfront, not here.

Promote choice for every woman and couple and you are employing good energy.