EnviroLink Forum

That's absurd. Many people go to college to learn how to get better jobs, true, but they also do it to learn, expand their mind, and make the world a better place. College essentially magnifies a person's capabilities and propensities. People can become greedy oil kings without university education just fine. Uneducated farmers usually pollute and damage the soil far more than farmers with degrees. Environmentalists need to be able to take into account a wide variety of unique factors for their analysis. Equation is the ANSWER, not the PROBLEM. We educate people on the problems the world is facing and hope they make the best choice. Demonizing education doesn't do anything aside from make someone look, well, uneducated.

A world where they only thing I do is grow crops day after day is not a world I want to live in. Which is strange, seeing as my username is...

........
HeritageFarm,,,,,,,,Industry has destroyed environment.......Industry is not being run by farmers........Industry is being run by billions of scientists, engineers, economists, MBA's, business and finance graduates produced by universities.

Billions of animals have been slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Industrial Farming of Animals, Construction of Industrial Slaughter Houses, Refrigeration/ Transportation Industry which transports live and dead animals all over the world and Marketing Industry which sells meat.

Billions of fish have been killed by Industrial Fishing because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Industrial Ships which catch fish, Refrigeration/ Transportation Industry which transports fish all over the world and Marketing Industry which sells fish.

Billions of acres of Forests have been destroyed by Industrial Activity because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Marketing Industry, Construction Industry, Transportation Industry, Oil Drilling and Refining Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road networks which are destroying forests moment by moment.

Billions of wild animals in forests have been killed by Industrial Activity because of Education....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for the decimation of wild animals.

Billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste has contaminated the environment because of Education.....Millions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste and eWaste are being added to environment every day because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for the poisoning of Rivers, Oceans, Land and Sky/ Atmosphere.

Millions of acres of Fertile Soil has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt because of Education....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for destruction of fertile soil by Construction Industry.

Education is responsible for thousands of tonnes of Nuclear Waste produced by Nuclear Industry which will keep contaminating the planet with hazardous radioactivity for the next thousands of years.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Radioactivity produced by Nuclear Industry which will remain a potential source of Death, Cancer, Multiple Organ Failures, Physical Deformities and Mental Abnormalities for thousands of years.

Education is also the source of Banking Industry [ IMF, World Bank and Millions of other National and International Banks] which is financing all Industrial Activity in this world that is destroying environment.....Banking Industry is being run by millions of Economists, MBA's, Business and Finance Graduates.

Education is also the source of the "Military Industrial Complex"....Millions of tonnes of Weapons and Explosives are being produced by "Military Industrial Complex" because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Production, Transportation and Marketing of weapons all over the world.
.
.

For millions of years there was just one main activity / occupation on earth - "Searching for Food" / "Producing Food"..........Urban population of industrial society is the anomaly that is producing consumer goods and services.

For millions of years, both adults and the offspring of millions of animal species "searched for food".

For 1 million years in hunter_gatherer society both adults and children "searched for food".

For 10,000 years in agrarian society, more than 99% of adults and children "produced food"

In industrial society which has only existed for 100 years, urban adults are producing consumer goods and services in industries and corporations..........Their children go to schools and universities where they learn how to produce and sell consumer goods in future.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Urban jobs and professions have destroyed the planet.
The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The crime goes unchecked because 50% of population is now urban.
The crime goes unchecked because urban population is running the system.
.
.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
..

Sushi you might want to consider a great compromise. How about we set up one industrial park where we offer a somewhat down sized version of what we get in an industrial society. No cars or planes or things like that but maybe something like hand pumps, bicycles, a range of human energy generated devices, a variety of useful medications and so on. The rest of the planet would be wilderness parks, small villages, family farms and connecting paths. No electric lines.

I think that could accommodate maybe a half billion people. Of course there would have to be an ethic of sustainability as opposed to growth.

MORE TREES, LESS PEOPLE!

TOOLS FOR NEED, NOT GREED!

.........
Dingo,,,,,,,,,,If a building is on fire you have to extinguish the fire completely.........You cannot leave a little fire burning in the building........The little fire will soon grow into a big fire and destroy the whole building.

You cannot limit industrial activity to a certain level.......Industrial revolution started with just a few industrial machines which gradually increased to millions of machines running on electricity and oil which led to destruction of forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.

Sushi,
Also consider that in fact, a fire can exist inside a building. You can feed it small parts of the building and regrow them as needed. Consider the case here in America. We have cars, buildings, urban sprawl, we've destroyed millions of acres of wilderness... But we also have millions of acres of protected wilderness. So we compromise! I wish we put more emphasis on the environment, but unfortunately people like their cars. Now consider a person in our countryside - they may build a house and build a road to their house, but the overall impact from a couple people over a dozen acres or so is pretty small... Or pretty large, depending on what said person did! Bu the main is that compromise is possible and necessary.

......
Discussion and debate is the final madness of industrial society........All discussion and debate is a farce.........There is no point in taking up one problem at a time and then engaging in endless debate on it when there are thousands of problems in industrial society........All problems of industrial society have either been created by industrialization or worsened by industrialization.........All problems of industrial society are unsolvable because industrialization itself is the cause of problems.........Problems of industrial society can go away only when industrial society goes away.

Topic after topic.......Citizens of industrial society will discuss one topic for a few minutes, then they will take up another topic, then a third one, and so it goes on forever 24x7, 365 days of the year........When people discuss one problem they behave as if it is the only problem in the world.

Debate cannot solve problems.......Debate itself is one of the biggest problems of industrial society.

Industrial society will debate itself to destruction.
Industrial society will debate itself to extinction.

Debate is endless.......Debate goes on forever.

Millions of pages of debate on thousands of issues is a disease and insanity of industrial society that invented the print industry, radio, television and internet.........Millions of pages of debate is another toxic waste of industrial society which has also produced millions of tonnes of plastic waste, chemical waste, gaseous waste and e-waste.

There was very little discussion in pre-industrial society.......It was primarily limited to face-to-face interaction on local issues.

Industrial society is consuming news just like it consumes consumer goods.

Man was not created to read, hear or watch national and international news.......Man was not created to debate national and international news.......For 10,000 years before industrialization, man lived in small villages in agrarian society where he would only hear news of events that happened within a radius of a few kilometers from the village.......It would take months and years for news from far away places to reach the village if it reached at all.

Industrialization came with hundreds of destructive industries........News industry is one of them.
.
.

People are engaging in endless discussion on how big corporations are destroying everything........There is endless discussion on Monsanto, Nuclear Industry, Coal Industry, Oil Industry, Banking Industry, Weapon Industry, Pharmaceutical Industry.

What is the point???...........If your house is on fire you rush to douse the fire.......You don't engage in endless discussion on the hazards and dangers of fire.

All industries and corporations are destroying the planet.......This is a fact........There is no point in taking up one industry at a time and then discussing how harmful it is........These industries and corporations need to be stopped immediately.

Who is running all the evil industries and corporations.......Are people from Mars running them???........Are farmers running them???

All destructive industries and corporations are being run by the urban population of industrial society.........Urban population is the root of all problems.......It is the urban population that has destroyed the planet.

You can never escape from chaos, madness and destruction once you have created extra jobs, professions and activities..........Industrial society has done just that........All urban jobs, professions and activities of industrial society are extra, unnecessary, destructive and worthless.
.
.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Urban jobs and professions have destroyed the planet.
The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The crime goes unchecked because 50% of population is now urban.
The crime goes unchecked because urban population is running the system.
.
.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Stop Education.........Close down Universities.
Stop Urban Work..........Close down the Cities.
..

Sushi says "Man was not created to read, hear or watch national and international news"

Man was not created, he evolved. And one of things that evolved in him was the ability to engage in language at a fairly sophisticated level. Language is the ability to turn experience into abstraction. It gives us the ability to model. Industrialization is part of that modeling. You want to get rid of industrialization in general you better get rid of language,

The challenge is to find good models and discard bad ones. That goes for industrialization, education etc.

Sushi; "Human collapse will come with lightning speed now."
Looks like 2024 to 2027, depending on which hemisphere you are in, north first, south three years later. In two centuries only bacteria and thermal vent life will exist. That is what you call "Destroys the Mind and Environment". Return of surface life evolution in 5 million years, just like the Permian-Triassic Great Dying, except coming at "lightning speed." The math on it is much faster, and that episode has been called "Fire Earth". This will be similar, except for the added pollution, like nuclear materials.
The only thing left to do is make sure you are in good with Our Father, and pray for miracles. I know they can happen.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Go out and enjoy what is left of beauty. Be at peace with yourself and God, knowing you did what you could. In less than 9 months, it will not be nice, anymore.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

.....
Humans want hundreds of rights.......A species that has taken away the rights of millions of other species wants hundreds of rights for itself.......Millions of other species don't even have the right to live because their habitats have been destroyed by man.......Industrial man wants hundreds of rights.......Right to food, clothing and shelter, Right to buy thousands of consumer goods and services, Right to salary, pension and education, Right to healthcare, welfare and insurance, Human Rights, Women's Rights, Children's Rights, Gay Rights, Lesbian Rights, This Right, That Right.........Height of Insanity.

This planet is home to millions of species......It is not the private property of man who can do whatever he wants......Industrial man has snatched away everything that belonged to millions of other species.

Industrial governments are governments of humans, by humans, for humans........Industrial governments gave more and more to humans by taking away more and more from other species........This has led to disastrous consequences........ Forests, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere have been destroyed........Millions of land and marine species have been decimated.

The planet is dying and gasping for last breath........Humans are demanding hundreds of rights.
.
.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

(It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment)

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
.....

An interesting aspect of industrial society is it mimics much of particularly insect societies like ants and bees. They have their own urban societies with bordered cities, specialization - armies, slaves, queens, studs etc. and all that. And then there are the plants with all their artful dissimulation to capture their victims and of course lethal toxins. One might say we applied our brains to taking a step backward in evolution. And a lot of it doesn't even seem to be conscious in the sense that the culture we have created is a lot more complex than any one person can get their head around, sort of trial and error and sticking with what works.

Interesting to speculate on all the stuff we do and acquire beyond food and clothing and shelter. Does any other species play games? Well mock warfare certainly exists in the the growing up stage of other species, but nothing like ballgames or board games that I know of. How about religion? Some folks say elephants have at least death ceremonies. I really don't know. A serious difference seems to be language which enables us to spin huge alternative realities which become the myths of a culture and then become the basis for ever more elaborated ways of living. Together with expanding our knowledge through accumulation of facts when you put the two together then it becomes imperative to shoot for the moon and turn space and the bottom of the sea into our natural home, a level of hubris that will probably destroy us.

........
Industrial Society trying to save environment, not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing Industrial Technology is like the Police trying to save the victims of mass shooting not by stopping the Gunman but by changing his Gun.

Bring this Technology.....Bring that Technology.
Bring this Technology.....Bring that Technology.

Height of Insanity.
.
.

The nonsense of Sustainable Development.........Keep a balance between Industry and Environment.

You cannot keep a balance between two things when one of them destroys the other.

If your house is on fire do you keep a balance between House and Fire???

You have to douse the fire.........You cannot save the house without dousing the fire.

Industry has destroyed environment.

The only way to save environment is by stopping industry.

Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.

Sustainable Development is an oxymoron........It is like Peaceful War.
.
.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

(It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment)

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
.....

........
Years have been changing on earth for millions of years.........It is only industrial man that has turned this event into a show of decadence and depravity.

Forests, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere have been destroyed.
Happy New Year.
Millions of species have been tortured, slaughtered and decimated.
Happy New Year.
The planet is dying and gasping for last breath.
Happy New Year.
Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.
Happy New Year.

Destroy the planet whole year and then party on new year eve to welcome another year of destruction.........Repeat this year after year.
.
.

In industrial society New Year means Parties, Music, Dance, Alcohol, Drugs, Entertainment, Shopping Discounts and Sales.

Excessive celebration is a disease and insanity of industrial society.........There was very little celebration in pre-industrial society when industrial consumer goods and services did not exist.

Mega celebration is a consequence of industrialization and urbanization........Mega celebration is a disease, insanity and criminality of industrial society........Pre-industrial celebrations were very simple affairs because of the absence of electricity, oil, industrial consumer goods, transportation industry, communication industry, advertising and marketing industry.

Industrial society is a society of shopping criminals........Advertisements everywhere.......Markets and Malls everywhere........The urban population of industrial society is engaged in the destructive cycle of producing consumer goods, selling consumer goods and buying consumer goods.

Industrial celebrations are Mega Destruction Events, Mega Criminal Events.......Pre-industrial celebrations were non destructive because they were primarily limited to prayer and worship........Industrial celebrations are highly destructive because they involve selling and buying of consumer goods and services........Production of consumer goods and services has destroyed the planet

Production of thousands of consumer goods and services has destroyed forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.........Production of thousands of consumer goods and services has decimated millions of land and marine species........Production of thousands of consumer goods and services has generated billions of tonnes of plastic waste, chemical waste, gaseous waste and e-waste.

Industrial society is destroying the planet 24 x 7, 365 days of the year........This destruction increases thousands of times during the festival season because of excessive increase in consumerism.
.
.

Industrialization = Decadence, depravity and unrestrained pleasure chasing.
Industrialization = Millions of prostitutes, pubs, bars, restaurants and parties.
Industrialization = Millions of tonnes of alcohol and designer drugs.
Industrialization = Pornography Industry, Film Industry, Fashion Industry, Sports Industry, Music and Entertainment Industry.

Industrialization = Hedonism raised to the power of infinity.

Industrial society is engaged in two main activities.........Destruction and Entertainment.

Work Hard.........Play Hard.
Destroy Hard......Enjoy Hard.
.
.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

(It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment)

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
.......

......
What would happen to your home if 1000 people entered and started working non-stop, picking up all the things lying in your home, breaking them up to produce new things out of them.

Your home would get ruined in one day.

This is exactly what has happened to the planet in the last 100 years........Billions of urban people worked non-stop in industries and corporations, picking up all the things available on the surface and under the surface of earth to produce thousands of consumer goods and services.......This has led to destruction of forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere........It has led to the torture, slaughter and decimation of millions of land and marine species.

Work is the biggest evil of industrial society........Work turned into overwork after industrialization.........Work turned into extra, unnecessary and destructive work after industrialization.

You can never escape from chaos, madness and destruction once you have created extra jobs, professions and activities........Industrial society has done just that.......Urban jobs, professions and activities are criminal........Urban jobs and professions have destroyed exponential extra environment

For hundred years the urban population of industrial society has been fooling the non-urban population with figures and terminologies.......Progress, Development, Growth Rate, Economy Rate, GDP.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Urban jobs and professions have destroyed the planet.
The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The crime goes unchecked because 50% of population is now urban.
The crime goes unchecked because urban population is running the system.
.
.

For millions of years there was just one main activity / occupation on earth - "Searching for Food" / "Producing Food"..........Urban population of industrial society is the anomaly that is producing consumer goods and services.

For millions of years, both adults and the offspring of millions of animal species "searched for food".

For 1 million years in hunter_gatherer society both adults and children "searched for food".

For 10,000 years in agrarian society, both adults and children "produced food"

In industrial society which has only existed for 100 years, urban adults are producing consumer goods and services in industries and corporations..........Their children go to schools and universities where they learn how to produce and sell consumer goods in future.
.
.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

(It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment)

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
.......