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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:32 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

Many mutants have made transnational impact on increasing yield and quality of several seed-propagated crops. Induced mutations will continue to have an increasing role in creating crop varieties with traits such as modified oil, protein and starch quality, enhanced uptake of specific metals, deeper rooting system, and resistance to drought, diseases and salinity as a major component of the environmentally sustainable agriculture.


:crazy:

If these mutants you're talking about are of the GM variety, then any organic farmer will tell you, that in the long run, that's just not true. GM crops do not produce higher yields. In fact, over time, it's the organic farms that have always produced the higher yields.

Also, the GM crops that are often grown on the majority of today's modern farms have led us to a system of agricultural mono-culture. This system is making our real food go extinct.

"In the last century, 94 percent of vintage, open-pollinated fruits and vegetables vanished. By 2005, the United Nations reported, 75 percent of the world's garden vegetables had been lost." -- excerpt from page 35 of 'The Seed Underground: A Growing Revolution to Save Food,' written by Janisse Ray

We should be alarmed by this because nature depends on diversity for its very survival. You can find a thorough explanation of why this is the case @ www.seeds.ca

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:18 am 
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SunnysideTroll wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

Many mutants have made transnational impact on increasing yield and quality of several seed-propagated crops. Induced mutations will continue to have an increasing role in creating crop varieties with traits such as modified oil, protein and starch quality, enhanced uptake of specific metals, deeper rooting system, and resistance to drought, diseases and salinity as a major component of the environmentally sustainable agriculture.


:crazy:

If these mutants you're talking about are of the GM variety, then any organic farmer will tell you, that in the long run, that's just not true.


Telling me it is not true if they have not raised the crops themselves means nothing. The fact there has been genetic manipulation of crops for about 80 years indicates otherwise. If it were not successful it would not have continued.


Quote:
GM crops do not produce higher yields. In fact, over time, it's the organic farms that have always produced the higher yields.



Saying it means nothing. Where is the data to support this claim?


Quote:
Also, the GM crops that are often grown on the majority of today's modern farms have led us to a system of agricultural mono-culture. This system is making our real food go extinct.


The modern farms have been a monoculture crop for quite some time. That makes for an efficient operation. As for the "real" food. That is an opinion and one you cannot support because people can and have been eating genetically modified crops for generations now.

Quote:
"In the last century, 94 percent of vintage, open-pollinated fruits and vegetables vanished. By 2005, the United Nations reported, 75 percent of the world's garden vegetables had been lost." -- excerpt from page 35 of 'The Seed Underground: A Growing Revolution to Save Food,' written by Janisse Ray


I would have to see some real data rather than a quote from a book for a targeted audience.


https://garden.org/learn/articles/view/293/

Open-pollinated vegetable varieties reproduce themselves in one of two ways: cross-pollination between two plants (via wind, insects or water) or self-pollination (between male and female flower parts contained within the same flower or separate flowers on the same plant). Beets, brassicas, carrots, corn and squash are cross-pollinating, and so require isolation in the field to keep varieties true. Beans, lettuce, peas and tomatoes are self-pollinating, do not require isolation and are the easiest for seed-saving home gardeners to sustain year to year.

So long as plants of an OP variety are kept isolated from different plants with which they can cross, they will produce seed that will come "true to type." In other words, the plants in the following generation will resemble the parent plants.

Many of the older strains of OPs, often refered to as "heirlooms," are not so much varieties as they are populations. In other words, individual plants within an older named variety can possess a great deal of genetic variability and may even vary in size and shape.

Up until the early 1900's, almost all cross-pollinating OP varieties represented this broad "gene pool" kind of population. But as plant breeders worked to develop new OPs, they began learning various new techniques to create more uniform varieties of plants.


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We should be alarmed by this because nature depends on diversity for its very survival. You can find a thorough explanation of why this is the case @ http://www.seeds.ca


There was no such explanation at the link perhaps somewhere in the assorted pages, but if not I waste time. If there is no link to the explanation the explanation must not be very important.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:49 am 
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"Organic farming is a 100 percent solution to the health problem, to the unemployment problem, the biodiversity problem, and water problem." -- Dr. Vandana Shiva, renowned author of 'Stolen Harvest'

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Organic farming is also the key to getting a handle on run-away climate change, I think. You see, regenerative organic agriculture can go a long way in sequestering all those CO2 emissions that cause global warming. Check out: http://bit.ly/1LwstBD

Also check out: www.huffingtonpost.com/maria-rodale/why ... 10854.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:58 pm 
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SunnysideTroll wrote:
"Organic farming is a 100 percent solution to the health problem, to the unemployment problem, the biodiversity problem, and water problem." -- Dr. Vandana Shiva, renowned author of 'Stolen Harvest'


Somewhat because it takes more manpower for less production if you cut out machinery, but it does not affect the water usage.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:13 pm 
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SunnysideTroll wrote:
Organic farming is also the key to getting a handle on run-away climate change, I think. You see, regenerative organic agriculture can go a long way in sequestering all those CO2 emissions that cause global warming. Check out: http://bit.ly/1LwstBD

Also check out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maria-rod ... 10854.html


A lot of claims but very, very light on data to support anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:22 pm 
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A study, conducted by UC Berkeley researchers, published online Wednesday, Dec. 10, 2014 in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, detailed a meta-analysis of 115 studies, — a dataset three times greater than previously published work — comparing organic and conventional agriculture. They found that organic yields are about 19.2 percent lower than conventional ones.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:08 am 
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"An awareness is growing that if the soil is deficient, then the carrot will be deficient. If the carrot is deficient, then we are deficient because our vitality is acquired from the soil." -- excerpt from an article which was written by Andrea Hayley and printed on page B3 in the April 29th - May 5th Ottawa edition of The Epoch Times

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:20 am 
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"But man is part of nature, and his war against nature is inevitably a war against himself." -- Rachel Carson, renowned author of 'Silent Spring'

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:23 am 
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SunnysideTroll wrote:
"An awareness is growing that if the soil is deficient, then the carrot will be deficient. If the carrot is deficient, then we are deficient because our vitality is acquired from the soil." -- excerpt from an article which was written by Andrea Hayley and printed on page B3 in the April 29th - May 5th Ottawa edition of The Epoch Times


Unless you are vegan and then you have to rely on the artificially produced supplements. :-

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:38 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
SunnysideTroll wrote:
"An awareness is growing that if the soil is deficient, then the carrot will be deficient. If the carrot is deficient, then we are deficient because our vitality is acquired from the soil." -- excerpt from an article which was written by Andrea Hayley and printed on page B3 in the April 29th - May 5th Ottawa edition of The Epoch Times


Unless you are vegan and then you have to rely on the artificially produced supplements. :-



That's only because humans need a small amount of vitamin B12 to carry on a healthy existence. We used to get that vitamin from ingesting the microbes that were present in our drinking water, but the water that most of us drink today goes through such a rigorous process to insure its potability that it is pretty much devoid of all these necessary micro-organisms by the time it gets to us.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:51 am 
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SunnysideTroll wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
SunnysideTroll wrote:
"An awareness is growing that if the soil is deficient, then the carrot will be deficient. If the carrot is deficient, then we are deficient because our vitality is acquired from the soil." -- excerpt from an article which was written by Andrea Hayley and printed on page B3 in the April 29th - May 5th Ottawa edition of The Epoch Times


Unless you are vegan and then you have to rely on the artificially produced supplements. :-



That's only because humans need a small amount of vitamin B12 to carry on a healthy existence. We used to get that vitamin from ingesting the microbes that were present in our drinking water, but the water that most of us drink today goes through such a rigorous process to insure its potability that it is pretty much devoid of all these necessary micro-organisms by the time it gets to us.


No, we got the B12 directly from animal products or the waste from animals, which contaminated our food supplies due to lack of cleanliness

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:44 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

No, we got the B12 directly from animal products or the waste from animals


While I agree that vegans may inadvertently get some of their vitamin B12 from the waste of animals, your statement is largely unfounded otherwise. Dr. T. Colin Campbell (renowned co-author of 'The China Study') has been quoted many times as saying that humans do not need to rely on animal products for their vitamin B12 needs.

I, myself, have been a vegetarian for about 20 years, and of those years, I've been a total vegan for about the last 6 of them. I do not take any supplements at all, and yet, my doctor has always found that my body holds a healthy level of vitamin B12 . I suspect that I get most of it from the dulse (seaweed) flakes that I often like to sprinkle on my vegetables.

Anyway, you should check out: www.facebook.com/thechinastudybook?hc_r ... CH&fref=nf

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:12 pm 
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SunnysideTroll wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

No, we got the B12 directly from animal products or the waste from animals


While I agree that vegans may inadvertently get some of their vitamin B12 from the waste of animals, your statement is largely unfounded otherwise. Dr. T. Colin Campbell (renowned co-author of 'The China Study') has been quoted many times as saying that humans do not need to rely on animal products for their vitamin B12 needs.

I, myself, have been a vegetarian for about 20 years, and of those years, I've been a total vegan for about the last 6 of them. I do not take any supplements at all, and yet, my doctor has always found that my body holds a healthy level of vitamin B12 . I suspect that I get most of it from the dulse (seaweed) flakes that I often like to sprinkle on my vegetables.

Anyway, you should check out: http://www.facebook.com/thechinastudybo ... CH&fref=nf


Dr. T Colin Campbell is a fool if he believes an anecdotal example provides evidence that humans do not need B12 in their diet. It may take a longer period for some to show the effect of the lack of input. You CANNOT get B12 from seaweed and that combined with the anecdotal attempt indicates a complete fool to me.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/1/3.short

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:00 pm 
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It appears Dr. Campbell is not the fool the quote provided would portray him as:

http://nutritionstudies.org/12-question ... tamin-b12/

This is why I recommend a daily supplement for those people with a reduced intake of animal foods.

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