EnviroLink Forum

Indeed, please stop this obsession with Neanderthal, Ergaster, Erectus, Egyptyian and so on.
Archealogists and anthropoligists studying them for decades admit they even don't know much at all about this.
However interesting, the topic here is clearly imminent disaster by present industrial society.

Imminent disaster by present industrial society:
In present day we see what we need to know in hunter gatherers, agrarian and industrial society all in front of our eyes do we not?
We can see hunter gatherers giving good example of intact and sane mind and environment.
We can see industrial society is bound for inherent planetary insane destruction.
What is there to learn from hunter gatherers?
Should we dress like them, chant or have rituals, live in caves?
That would be ridiculous.

Exactly as Sushil Yadav says their lesson is obviously focusing on food, water, shelter...basic needs.
And leave the rest, that is the lesson.
Stop everything else, a million different other things to stop.
Which will never happen as we know before industrial society soon takes the planet out mankind and all.

Modern industrial society evolved from hunter gatherers etc. as I've related, Got any suggestions on how to turn things back?

Pandemic of sufficient proportions ..... massive nuclear exchange ..... alien invasion ..... or maybe Trumps's second term

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Did you not read what mr. Yadav wrote?
Do not spam.

Who was supposedly spamming?

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

..........
Science and technology has destroyed the planet.......Expecting science and technology to save the planet is like expecting petrol to extinguish fire.......It is like expecting weapon industry to stop wars.......expecting fast food industry to stop obesity.......expecting alcohol industry to stop drinking.......expecting tobacco industry to stop smoking.......expecting monsanto to make food non-toxic and safe.

Environment has been destroyed by Mining Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Electricity Industry, Oil Industry, Automobile and Rail Industry, Airline and Shipping Industry, Meat and Fishing Industry......Science and technology created these destructive industries.......Science and technology is running these destructive industries.

Industrial Society trying to save environment, not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing Industrial Technology is like the Police trying to save the victims of mass shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun of the shooter.

Bring this Technology.....Bring that Technology.
Bring this Technology.....Bring that Technology.

Height of Insanity.
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Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.

Industrialization = Destruction of forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.
Industrialization = Torture, slaughter and decimation of millions of species.
Industrialization = Billions of tonnes of plastic waste and chemical waste.
Industrialization = Billions of tonnes of gaseous waste and ewaste.
Industrialization = Killing of billions of acres of fertile soil with cement & concrete.
Industrialization = Butchering of trillions of animals in slaughter houses.
Industrialization = Poisoning of planet with nuclear waste for 50,000 years.
Industrialization = Decimation of fish in the oceans by industrial fishing.
Industrialization = Acidification and warming of the oceans.
Industrialization = Oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans.
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Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
..

For hundred years economists, politicians and urban people have been fooling the non-urban population with figures and terminology......progress, development, growth rate, economy rate, GDP.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Development is the biggest crime in the world......The entire planet has been destroyed in the name of development.......All the extra, unnecessary and destructive work of urban population has been called development.
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Industrial society has destroyed necessary things for making unnecessary things.

Industrial society has destroyed Forests, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere for making consumer goods.

If you don't get consumer goods you will not die.

If you don't get food to eat you will die in a month.
If you don't get water to drink you will die in a week.
If you don't get air to breathe you will die in a few minutes.
.
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For millions of years there was just one main activity / occupation on earth - "Searching for Food" / "Producing Food"..........Urban population of industrial society is the anomaly that is producing consumer goods and services.

For millions of years, both adults and the offspring of millions of animal species "searched for food".

For hundreds of thousands of years in hunter_gatherer society both adults and children "searched for food".

For 10,000 years in agrarian society, most of the adults and children "produced food"

In industrial society which has only existed for about 100 years, urban adults are producing consumer goods and services in industries and corporations..........Their children go to schools and universities where they learn how to produce and sell consumer goods in future.

Urban jobs and professions have destroyed the planet.
The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The crime goes unchecked because 50% of population is now urban.
The crime goes unchecked because urban population is running the system.
.
.

Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.

Industrialization = Destruction of forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.
Industrialization = Torture, slaughter and decimation of millions of species.
Industrialization = Billions of tonnes of plastic waste and chemical waste.
Industrialization = Billions of tonnes of gaseous waste and ewaste.
Industrialization = Butchering of billions of animals in industrial slaughter houses.
Industrialization = Killing of billions of acres of fertile soil with cement & concrete.
Industrialization = Poisoning of planet with nuclear waste for 50,000 years.
Industrialization = Decimation of fish in the oceans by industrial fishing.
Industrialization = Acidification and warming of the oceans.
Industrialization = Oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans.

It was the west that started industrial revolution..........It was the west that forced industrial lifestyle on Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had destroyed during the era of colonization.
.
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Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
.

In sufficient numbers, the CO2 from our collective breathing would have induced methane turnover, or burning to stay warm in places we were never supposed to live, improper agricultural practices would have helped get the CO2 level too high. Over a slower period, but still a geologic blink of an eye. Killing off our predators was the start, along with the attitude of extreme preciousness of human life over that of support species of plants and animals. Tipping points passed, and positive feedback loops formed. It is the Permian all over again. Was it life's love of itself, or was it just the nature of methane?
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/soundings ... h4.074.gif
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sea ... tion=click

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

.....
What do you do when 50% of world population is criminal?.......How does society deal with criminals.......It forcibly stops their destructive work, sends them to jail and gives them food for free......What do you do when 50% of world population is criminal?

Urban jobs and professions have destroyed the planet.
The entire urban population of industrial society is criminal.
The crime goes unchecked because 50% of population is now urban.
The crime goes unchecked because urban population is running the system.

Give free food to the urban population but stop urban work for production of thousands of consumer goods........A fraction of world population is already producing food for entire population.
.
.

This planet is very small........Just 40,000 km in circumference.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment.

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.......More than 99% of collapse has already happened......Man is next on the list.......Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
.
.

Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Stop Education.......Close down Universities.
Stop Urban Work........Close down the Cities.
.

@sushilydv : I like your point of view and your statements. Deep in my heart I have always felt this. When I see how things are changing - "developing" with people being just more distant to each other and beautiful, quiet places with dirt roads, where kids used to ride their bikes have now brand new pavement with cars passing fast, I just want to cry.

I don't see anything charming about speeding up our lives and never having time for the real values. The problem is that if do not follow this urban trend, you are very likely to face financial insecurity. You must be very lucky to make it.

It saddens me to see, for example, traditional crafts disappearing because these skilled young craftsmen go to work for large companies to get their secure income rather than facing the insecurity of job fluctuations, if they were on their own.

I am truly sad about urbanization!

Yup Pennylop, there is not a lot of choice.
When one is critical of industrial society, you will also usually be attacked by the Tesla loving types who think "renewable energy" and that sort of industry will get us out of the mess we are in.
They will call you a hypocrite for using a PC and tell you to go live in a cave or some such crap.
Completely failing to understand the situation and limited options most people have.
There is a lot one can do still though, depending on your situation/location etc.
All the usual stuff, repair, re-use and so on.
I live in a very busy growing city and maybe reduced my so called "footprint" 80%.
No sense in expecting that to have an impact or aspire to perfectionism either.
Helps being able to look at yourself in the mirror though
Have a lovely day.

Why was there ever any industrialization? It was to satisfy the demands of a local overpopulation. Why did people overpopulate? Life itself has the over-reproduction capacity and people could not see the consequences of their actions in seven generations.
This is a FALSE statement from Sushi: "It was the west that started industrial revolution..........It was the west that forced industrial lifestyle on Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had destroyed during the era of colonization." No it was overpopulated China that started industrialization with the water wheel invention for mass production. Google; "Coal was one of man's earliest sources of heat and light. The Chinese were known to have used it more than 3,000 years ago." Chinese habits spread to overpopulated India before "the west".
If we factor in things that did not happen during the Permian Great Dying, and the speed we think happened then and now, we can get a better idea. We have so much radoactive material that was not a factor then. I have harbored the idea of an impact into clathrate beds as possible, since subducted, for the speed and high extinction rate. It seems that humans are even faster, I suppose depending on how you look at it and from what distance in time. I think that we are looking at a more complete ELE with a similar several million years to get rid of radioactivity and re-evolve plant then animal life. Maybe intelligent life again in a similar 250 million years. They will discover us and figure out what happened, maybe like us, just when it is happening again in a cycle of methane being a forerunner molecule for life and being its destroyer. All we can do is fight for reducing everything and trying to stop this phemomenon. The aerosol event idea is so fraught with doubts that I think the best thing to do with our fight is to pray to our creator for Divine Intervention. It can do no harm. The worst possible thing I could ever imagine is a worse than Permian methane turnover event and its 100,000 years of continuous thousands of storms in a radiated world of lightning flashed blackness, and a white globe shining, from the outside.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

I hear you John.
Perhaps we can see industrialization as the result of agrarians?
Not necessarily western, eastern north or south.
Can you say what you mean by ELE?

ELE is the geologic term for a mass extiction of 50% or more of species on the planet. Prof. Richard Leakey put the start of the 6th Great Extinction at 11,000 years ago with the development of the "Folsom Point" spear head, and the extinction of megafauna.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Ok Johhny thanks. "Extinction Level Event" = ELE then right?
I dunno about Leakey's assumption of the 6th one though,does he mean in North America?
Where the megafauna extinction is now also thought to be caused by other factors then just the arrival of human hunter gatherers by the way.
The Folsom point has precedence by many other lithic examples.
But wooden points are used even as we speak, or others.
Ask Sydney Possuelo who got one straight through the face....massive hardwood point nearly killed him as he researched hunter gatherers who prefer isolation.

There is a lot to be said how archeologists tend to overfocus on finds of stone points or tools.
It is simply not possible to preserve wood over time and us to find it except on rare occasions.
The Schoenignen spears were dated to several hundreds of thousands years old.
It seems very unlikely to me hunter gatherers would have wiped out the megafauna of America, even with stone points.
Imagine them in their many thousands....chucking atlatls or arrows at millions of large animals...no way.

Climate studies are showing us the huge impacts which make such events next to insignificant now.
Caused by impacts from space, Earth or industrial society as the man said.
The actual data now shows around 50-60% of life on land gone, more in the ocean.
Did that happen 11,000 years ago?