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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:06 am 
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Josh, I have a humble suggestion...

that there be several more categories...
in the forums... such as

. slaughterhouse issues
. factory farming
. lab animals
. Canadian seals
. Spanish and Mexican bulls
etc etc

This way those interested in keeping up with those issues
could go to those forums

_________________
Boycott Air Canada, Greyhound,
all Canadian tourism, products such as lumber, meat,
alcohol, fish until
sealclubbing is banned.
http://seashepherd.org/seals/seals.html
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=martha


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:08 pm 
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arc108 wrote:
Josh, I have a humble suggestion...

that there be several more categories...
in the forums... such as

. slaughterhouse issues
. factory farming
. lab animals
. Canadian seals
. Spanish and Mexican bulls
etc etc

This way those interested in keeping up with those issues
could go to those forums


This is the way we used to have the forum organized, with well over 15-20 sub-folders in the Animal Concerns area. The problem was that there were not enough users to support active conversations in the sub-threads and it basically became too big of an infrastructure for the user population.

There's a chicken and egg problem (I hope that metaphor flies...) in that you need a large user community to support many sub-levels to a forum, but I would guess that you are making this suggestion because you think it will attract more users?

The best way to keep track of issues on an ongoing basis is to go to the appropriate sub-area of the AnimalConcerns.org website. The topics there include:

- Animal Health
- Animal Rescue
- Animal Wildlife
- Animals as Food and Clothing
- Animals in Entertainment
- Breeding
- Companion Animals
- Factory Farms
- Habitat Conservation
- Hunting and Trapping
- Laboratory Animals
- Legislation
- Violence, Abuse and Neglect
- Working Animals

There are even subtopics of the subtopics, with hundreds if not thousands of resources listed. Perhaps we should think about more closely integrating the Animal Concerns forum area with the AnimalConcerns.org site.

Suggestions are welcome...

-josh


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:09 pm 
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btw... I have changed the name of this topic... there's no reason to put a user's name in the Subject of a topic. Please stop doing this.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:23 pm 
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Quote:
There are even subtopics of the subtopics, with hundreds if not thousands of resources listed. Perhaps we should think about more closely integrating the Animal Concerns forum area with the AnimalConcerns.org site.


I do not think it is a good idea to link the web site to the forum. Not until the forum is "cleaned up" it is not very well liked in the AR/AW community at the moment.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:47 pm 
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phantomuk wrote:
Quote:
There are even subtopics of the subtopics, with hundreds if not thousands of resources listed. Perhaps we should think about more closely integrating the Animal Concerns forum area with the AnimalConcerns.org site.


I do not think it is a good idea to link the web site to the forum. Not until the forum is "cleaned up" it is not very well liked in the AR/AW community at the moment.


:roll: And how should we "clean up" the forum to your liking? I suppose it involves banning anyone who has differing opinions? Or perhaps I should ban all of the folks who partake in personal attacks and other disruptive behavior? :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:02 pm 
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Quote:
:roll: And how should we "clean up" the forum to your liking? I suppose it involves banning anyone who has differing opinions? Or perhaps I should ban all of the folks who partake in personal attacks and other disruptive behavior? :shock:


Yes this would be a good start and I know that would include me. It would be a good idea to see how don posts in other forums as well then you will get a good idea of his motives. I also suspect him of sending me a large amount of racist emails today. Ip originate from Canada :roll: My ISP is looking into it.

Would you ban a member of this forum if it is proved he targeted another member with racist hate mail?

Josh take a look around your forum. It is full of one liner gripes and posts posted just to cause problems. How many warnings are you going to give don I wonder?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:12 pm 
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Donnie Mac Leod wrote:
If people consider dog as a part of their diet I will not be telling those folks that they stop eating dog. I consider such dictatorial edicts to be a serious threat to individual freedom of choice.


This is the sort of insight he offers to debate.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:20 pm 
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phantomuk wrote:
Yes this would be a good start and I know that would include me. It would be a good idea to see how don posts in other forums as well then you will get a good idea of his motives. I also suspect him of sending me a large amount of racist emails today. Ip originate from Canada :roll: My ISP is looking into it.

I would be careful about making public accusations about someone else commiting a crime. Here in the US, there is a legal term for that which is slander (it technically would be considered libel because you have done it in writing). If you can not prove your allegations, beyond the ridiculous claim that it "comes from Canada," you are just disrupting. I could send you an e-mail right now that looks like it came from Zimbabwe or any other country of your choosing. I could even make it look like you sent it to yourself. Get a clue, e-mail headers are the easiest thing to fudge, as is routing e-mail through other's people IPs if you are a hacker.
Quote:
Would you ban a member of this forum if it is proved he targeted another member with racist hate mail?

The rules of the forum are now clearly posted, you can click the Rules button to see what rules we have and how we may enforce them.
Quote:
Josh take a look around your forum. It is full of one liner gripes and posts posted just to cause problems. How many warnings are you going to give don I wonder?

Most of them are from you. Would you like me to ban you now? You keep complaining about all of the attacking that happens here and yet you are without a doubt one of the biggest culprits here. I've tried to show a lot of patience with you (as with Donnie) because I think you (and he) have real opinions that can be constructively expressed. When I stop believing that, you (or he) will be banned.

You (and some others here) really do need to be able to understand the difference between disagreeing with a person about an issue and taking that disagreement personally and escalating it to personal attacks. It's a nuance that you (and a few others) don't seem to be able to grasp, and I can't understand why.

-josh


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:40 pm 
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Hello Josh. I have a long history on your forum. I have never sent such a PM to any poster as Phantomuk suggests. In fact I find it deplorable that such a racist charge is made against me. As for the point about eating dog meat ,I see no problem with a person in Asia eating dog meat. If that is their diet ,so be it. Such a one liner is withing the confines of a forum such as yours. The reason I made note of that fact about restricting personal freedoms is also a fair remark in any democracy.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:51 pm 
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phantomuk wrote:
Donnie Mac Leod wrote:
If people consider dog as a part of their diet I will not be telling those folks that they stop eating dog. I consider such dictatorial edicts to be a serious threat to individual freedom of choice.

This is the sort of insight he offers to debate.

This is exactly my point... in this case Donnie is expressing his personal opinion. It may be completely offensive to your ethics or personal beliefs, and it may be completely antithetical to everything that the AR/Welfare/etc. community stands for, but it is not a personal attack against you. There are millions of Donnies in this world (and worse) who are, in fact, the types of people you are fighting against.

This forum exists specifically so that the Donnies and the PhantomUKs of the world can come together and DISCUSS issues, perhaps learn from each other, and maybe (just maybe) come to some common understanding.

I am not endorsing Donnie's statements nor his beliefs. I am giving him and you a place to express your beliefs and discuss them. The tricky part that requires maturity is being able to discuss differences of opinion without it erupting into war. Don't you see that?!? If we can't come together with people we disagree with and have some constructive dialogue, then you end up with a Bush-style Crusade (for the dense, I am referring to the Crusades) in Iraq and elsewhere, attempting to use war to convert people to our way of thinking.

If you (or anyone else) can't or won't participate in this type of discussion, then you should, in fact, leave.

-josh


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Quote:
I would be careful about making public accusations about someone else commiting a crime. Here in the US, there is a legal term for that which is slander (it technically would be considered libel because you have done it in writing). If you can not prove your allegations, beyond the ridiculous claim that it "comes from Canada," you are just disrupting. I could send you an e-mail right now that looks like it came from Zimbabwe or any other country of your choosing. I could even make it look like you sent it to yourself. Get a clue, e-mail headers are the easiest thing to fudge, as is routing e-mail through other's people IPs if you are a hacker.


Josh it goes deeper than email headers. The email was sent from a yahoo account set up from Canada. don is welcome to take legal action if he want to. Don is not a hacker though is he and he did not think I would go as far as I have to trace the id of who sent it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:00 pm 
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Donnie Mac Leod wrote:
Hello Josh. I have a long history on your forum. I have never sent such a PM to any poster as Phantomuk suggests. In fact I find it deplorable that such a racist charge is made against me. As for the point about eating dog meat ,I see no problem with a person in Asia eating dog meat. If that is their diet ,so be it. Such a one liner is withing the confines of a forum such as yours. The reason I made note of that fact about restricting personal freedoms is also a fair remark in any democracy.


You posted the comments about eating dogs just to offend, a very sly person you are don.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:03 pm 
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phantomuk wrote:
Josh it goes deeper than email headers. The email was sent from a yahoo account set up from Canada. don is welcome to take legal action if he want to. Don is not a hacker though is he and he did not think I would go as far as I have to trace the id of who sent it.

I really don't care. If it didn't involve EnviroLink or IGC's servers (which I highly doubt it did) then deal with this through the appropriate channels.

-josh


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:23 pm 
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josh knauer wrote:
phantomuk wrote:
Josh it goes deeper than email headers. The email was sent from a yahoo account set up from Canada. don is welcome to take legal action if he want to. Don is not a hacker though is he and he did not think I would go as far as I have to trace the id of who sent it.

I really don't care. If it didn't involve EnviroLink or IGC's servers (which I highly doubt it did) then deal with this through the appropriate channels.

-josh


I am doing and again I will ask you if it is proved that a member of this forum set another member racist hate mail would you ban them? The only reason I ask is because it would not have happened, if it is proved, if not a member and so it was because of it.

Would you ban a person if I had proof they was a racist?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 pm 
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phantomuk wrote:
Would you ban a person if I had proof they was a racist?

Read the rules... stop trying to take this topic off into your own personal vendetta land and freaking read what I have posted. You have yourself wound up so tight that you don't seem capable of comprehending what I've already posted here.

-josh


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