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 Post subject: the real deal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:46 pm 
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now that its opened up. i'll get into this debate up front and pull no punches.

i euthed my kids's kitten months back by hitting it on the head with a shovel a few times. the details are on another thread that tells the story but it's long.

facts of it.

came up from hunting
cat was limp, eyes mattered shut, fur was diarhea and vomit encrusted, and i figure d the cat was dead at first until it was gasping havin obviously aspirated.
cat was fine as frogs hair the previous evening
i discovered cat in this condition at roughly 9:30 am.
i did not call vet, as it was obvious the cat was not going to make it
i asked my daughter if she wanted me to put it out of its misery.
she said yes.
i asked if she wanted me to do it immediately
she said yes
she is 9 years old
she was very upset
i told her she could be there if she wanted to.
she said no. i suggested she go in the house.
she did.
i took cat tossed it in the yard went and got shovel and whacked it a few times until i was certain it was completely dead.
my daughtyer chose to watch from the window.
she cried at losing the pet
she thanked me for killing it quickly
i helped her bury it and we both "said a few words" over the grave
i asked vet what it was when i took the remaining cat in for tests the next day. he said with the symptoms it was most likely distemper
i exumed the body a week later (which grace was not in the previous thread...cuz it never got that far) to have the dead body tested for other issues to see if the other kitten is/was at risk.
the first cat was dead of distemper.
i dont know what method of testing was done.
i reburied cat in the same spot.
so far other kitten has shown no signs or symptoms and was vaccinated immediately after dead cat died.

niether cat was immunized prior due to age.
we got both kittens very early cuz mother cat abandon them at my friends farm


how cruel was that?
i'll answer reasonable questions.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Animal rights/welfare is really not my gig, but here's my two cents:

I don't have any problem with euthanization, in fact I think that humans should have that as a more accessible option/choice for themselves. I would argue that wacking a cat with a shovel a few times may not be the most efficient method of euthanizing it, but that's a personal decision. I'm much more worried about the impact psychologically on your daughter than the exact method for euthanizing your cat.

If I was faced with the same situation, I might have found a less visibly violent way of doing it if I knew my child was watching. The long term impacts of seeing your father beat a pet to death at that age might have long term impacts. Once again, this is a parenting decision and is probably yours to make (and not to be judged by others who weren't there). Others will probably disagree with me, but that's the beauty of discussing these types of things here.

-josh


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Choices such as that are very very hard Wiijim. If you do nothing you prolong the agony for the cat to protect only your own suffering for doing the killing. The quickest way to end the suffering is what I would strive for. A person can always do their hand wringing appology for themselves later but at least the victim is not suffering.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:02 pm 
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josh knauer wrote:
Animal rights/welfare is really not my gig, but here's my two cents:

I don't have any problem with euthanization, in fact I think that humans should have that as a more accessible option/choice for themselves. I would argue that wacking a cat with a shovel a few times may not be the most efficient method of euthanizing it, but that's a personal decision. I'm much more worried about the impact psychologically on your daughter than the exact method for euthanizing your cat.

If I was faced with the same situation, I might have found a less visibly violent way of doing it if I knew my child was watching. The long term impacts of seeing your father beat a pet to death at that age might have long term impacts. Once again, this is a parenting decision and is probably yours to make (and not to be judged by others who weren't there). Others will probably disagree with me, but that's the beauty of discussing these types of things here.

-josh



I would have taken the weakened animal and gave it a neck twist severing the neck from the body but the object was to kill the animal quickly. Sometimes folks need to make tough choices in such circumstances. Lots of deer and such were finished off with a tire iron on the side of the road to put them out of their misery after being hit by a car. Vets recommend that method if it is needed to stop suffering in such cases. Sometimes spectators at such an accident are kids but is the lesson to end suffering more important then allowing it to continue so you can wring your hands in pretense that you can do NOTHING.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:03 pm 
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Jim when I was younger.I had to put some of my own beloved pets down,still do from time to time. You won't be judged by me for it. Sometimes euthanasia by vets are either too costly for some folks,or they live too far out to have it done. The end of the animals' suffering is what matters most.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:09 pm 
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If it was already in the state of death gasping, then you essentially were hitting an already "out of it" animal. The cat's body had already gone into shutdown, and it had no awareness that it was suffering.

It seems more a case of relieving your daughter's belief that the cat was suffering, and you are to be commended for taking action to ensure her that the cat would no longer be suffering.

As far as it being judged a violent form of euthanasia by you or your daughter, that is ultimately between you and your daughter, as to how she ends up being effected by the "shovel to the head" method itself. I have a hunch, however, that society need not worry that your daughter will become a serial killer, because I have the impression that you deal with realities with your children from a very level-headed standpoint.

otoh, when she's a teenager and you end up grounding her once too often for staying out too late, I'd play it safe and wear a helmet every night when sleeping. Okay...j/k. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:15 pm 
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Mr. Venom wrote:
Jim when I was younger.I had to put some of my own beloved pets down,still do from time to time. You won't be judged by me for it. Sometimes euthanasia by vets are either too costly for some folks,or they live too far out to have it done. The end of the animals' suffering is what matters most.




I have had to walk home many times over the years with tears streaming down my face because a favored animal was dying and the solution was to end its suffering despite knowing the pain I would endure. Old Yeller is more then a movie for many country boys and girls. It has been a reality that we lived through . Seeing those deaths didn't weaken me or even harden me but it sure made me weigh what is most important. The suffering coming to an end is what must be targeted.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:12 pm 
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i had no particular attachment to this cat. but i do have a very huge attachment to my daughter obviously. i could have gone in the gun room picked out the right one. bolted it (i keep most of the bolts out of them), dug out the shells, and shot it in the head. taking up to potentially 5 minutes as i wasn't prepared to kill a cat that morning. or i could have loaded it up, taken it to the vet and paid to have it injected, i live out of town...potentially from 25-45 minutes in getting me n the vet off what ever farm he may be at.

i selected taking literally 20 seconds to kill it. my daughter was insistant at watching it. she's very cool with how it went down. we have discussed it. i was concerned when i found out she had watched. but she assured me she realized it was her choice.

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lately i been thinkin' aunt betty stopped her blinkin'....soon she'll be a stinkin'..........my deceased mother in law speaking of her aunt who had died.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:16 pm 
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incidently it was offered up that what i did was potentially illegal and definitely, immoral as well as cruel in the other discussion i had on this.


honestly i felt pretty much like i did something good after it. was sad cuz my daughter was so saddened by it, but ultimately i took care of her pet for her as i wouldn't expect her to at her age.

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lately i been thinkin' aunt betty stopped her blinkin'....soon she'll be a stinkin'..........my deceased mother in law speaking of her aunt who had died.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:20 pm 
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josh knauer wrote:
Animal rights/welfare is really not my gig, but here's my two cents:

I don't have any problem with euthanization, in fact I think that humans should have that as a more accessible option/choice for themselves. I would argue that wacking a cat with a shovel a few times may not be the most efficient method of euthanizing it, but that's a personal decision. I'm much more worried about the impact psychologically on your daughter than the exact method for euthanizing your cat.
If I was faced with the same situation, I might have found a less visibly violent way of doing it if I knew my child was watching. The long term impacts of seeing your father beat a pet to death at that age might have long term impacts. Once again, this is a parenting decision and is probably yours to make (and not to be judged by others who weren't there). Others will probably disagree with me, but that's the beauty of discussing these types of things here.

-josh


what my daughter saw me do was an act of purpose as opposed to an act of aggression. she understands that as we talked. my kids and i are very close. my wife n i are very attentive parents.

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lately i been thinkin' aunt betty stopped her blinkin'....soon she'll be a stinkin'..........my deceased mother in law speaking of her aunt who had died.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:00 pm 
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You're awright Jim. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:33 pm 
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Wijim
I know we rarely ever agree on anything but in this instance I guess you did the right thing. If it was the way you described I guess i can understand your actions. My husband would more than likely have done the same. Hate to shock you by agreeing with you and I know those who have agreed with me on other matters will disagree with me now but just wanted to share my thoughts with you.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:34 pm 
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Attentive parenting shows in the fact that she recognized that the kitten was suffering and she put the kitten's welfare before her own emotions. Very mature of her.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:35 pm 
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wijim wrote:
what my daughter saw me do was an act of purpose as opposed to an act of aggression. she understands that as we talked. my kids and i are very close. my wife n i are very attentive parents.

Your ability to speak with your daughter openly about it is the most important thing. Kids witness much more horrible things and are able to work through it if they have a good support structure. That's the most important thing.

-josh


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:55 pm 
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Wijim, I have been there, done that, and unfortunately have the T-shirt. Not only have I had to put down my own animals on the farm, I accidentally ran over my children's cat in our driveway, which only partially crushed her skull resulting in me having to quickly put her out of her misery.

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