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 Post subject: Chow down
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Anyone else heard about the 'planetary health diet.'?


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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:58 pm 
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I didn't hear that. What does this mean?


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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
Anyone else heard about the 'planetary health diet.'?


Is it what you feed your planet to keep it healthy and reduce the number of parasites infesting it?

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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:19 pm 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46865204

A bit of meat, a lot of veg - the flexitarian diet to feed 10bn
By James Gallagher

Scientists have been trying to figure out how we are going to feed billions more people in the decades to come.

Their answer - "the planetary health diet" - does not completely banish meat and dairy.

But it is recommending we get most of our protein from nuts and legumes (such as beans and lentils) instead.

Their diet needs an enormous shift in what we pile on to our plates and for us to turn to foods that we barely eat.

What changes am I going to have to make?
If you eat meat every day then this is the first biggie. For red meat you're looking at a burger a week or a large steak a month and that's your lot.

You can still have a couple of portions of fish and the same of chicken a week, but plants are where the rest of your protein will need to come from. The researchers are recommending nuts and a good helping of legumes every day instead.

There's also a major push on all fruit and veg, which should make up half of every plate of food we eat.

Although there's a cull on "starchy vegetables" such as the humble potato or cassava which is widely eaten in Africa.

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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:25 pm 
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A piece of land that feeds one meat eater can feed several vegetarians. Ok. What will happen next? I think that population growth will eat all the effectiveness of this way. We can get fifty billion vegetarians and get back to the question of efficiency. Key questions are: how much resources should humanity leave to nature? And how can we control the population?


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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:47 pm 
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solidum wrote:
A piece of land that feeds one meat eater can feed several vegetarians.


Not always. The US has locations which are not suitable for growing crops but can graze cattle or other animals and produce food that would not otherwise be consumable by humans.


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Ok. What will happen next? I think that population growth will eat all the effectiveness of this way. We can get fifty billion vegetarians and get back to the question of efficiency. Key questions are: how much resources should humanity leave to nature? And how can we control the population?


Which is the real question as there will always be a finite capacity for supporting a population independent of what that population is ... human, cattle, deer, hogs, dogs, or birds.

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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:13 pm 
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I am trying to draw a simple model to show the general principle. We have a limited region of our planet and a limited energy of our Sun. For example, a hundred dogs or fifty dogs and ten people or twenty people and zero dogs can live in a certain area. If we want to save animal species, we have to decide: how many resources should we leave for wildlife? The second part: this area can feed twenty people without any luxury or ten people with a good home or one person with a good home and a good car, etc. I don’t show real numbers, this is just for comparison.

I am not a primitivist, and I do not think that people should throw away science, grow new tails and climb trees. I think, this way is a repetition.


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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:16 pm 
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The human population has been in overshoot a long time. Depleting aquifers and soils hundreds of times their regeneration rates. Pollution has been hundreds of times the planetary absorption/processing rates for a long time, with momentum in the system. Fossil fuels have been used at 50,000 times their regeneration rates. A great deal of harm has been done, including the worst that is invisible. The oceans have absorbed heat from the increasing CO2 trapping and are over 6 billion Hiroshima size atom bombs of added heat. It was at 4 per second and now 7 per second, and this century's CO2 has hardly even hit yet. It has been enough for the decline in Arctic sea ice protecting us from massive runaway release of 1500GTs of methane on the shallow shelves and 1050GTs in the melting permafrost. The latest PIOMAS late summer sea ice minimum shows zero ice 2024 + or - 4 years, the latent heat calculations show 2 years to add +1*F to the deposits in addition to the +1*F so far down 700m. They are at 50 m deep. The +1 has given slow releases, much absorbed by the water for years, but witnessed hitting the surface as "boiling seas" and fountains by the hundreds up to a kilometer wide and 3 m tall, the extra degree will cause extremely rapid expansion to170 times their volume. Blowouts were occurring in Siberia and no word for several years now on the often heard distant blasts (coverup by Russia). The readings of atmospheric methane show a lot coming from the Arctic and almost as much coming from terrestrial sources like mass animal feedlots, fracking leaks, and some tree types. Break down is contributing to the CO2 increase, and humidity increase along with the perceived thermal rise, which has 1.1*C or more masked by soots of combustion(total +1.73*C since 1750). Once the Arctic shelf releases get into the GT range, the 1st year average of 100CO2e sets of more releases, along with sympathetic/kinetic/seismic releases from adjacent deposits. Temperature rise goes exponential and the methane "veil" travels south in 6 months to two years. Humidity increases as the temperature goes up 1*F per year in the second year of runaway, and at +3*F from present, all crops die, and at +4 surface life begins to go extinct. Human die off causes stopping of burning and soot fallout jumps the temperature another 3*F and it keeps going, adding humidity and storms until 100% humidity and thick global reflective cloud cover with continued heat deeper in the oceans releasing more methane which ignites by lightning or breaks down directly to rain and more CO2 and less O2. Bacteria surviving releases SO2 in "Canfield Oceans" and in some areas NO. So the storms have nitric, sulfuric and carbonic acid in them. Eventually the heat stops at some depth (23K ft.?) and the methane releases stop. The ocean stars cooling, then the air, as the acids form rocks and mineral deposits and cool down continues until the sun comes through. Then cyanobacteria begins removing CO2 and adding O2 until several million years life larger than very small begins to evolve in the oceans then the land. The ice ages return, and in many millions of years the full diversity returns. Intelligent life, hopefully more intelligent and moral, could evolve again. Or a Miracle from God could restore the biosphere with admonishment to those who skipped the first commandment on page one of Genesis, "Replenish the Earth". A Toba Event could also stop it if done soon, and without a mishap in shutting down 477 nuclear reactors to be used for Gen 4 powered CO2 to carbonate factories(100K+), OMTEC refrigeration units for the oceans(1K+) and drone manufacturing(10K+) to replant trillions of trees. It will still take two centuries to lower CO2 to safe level below 350 ppm. There would only be 50 million underground survivors of the long winter needed to cool the oceans. The geologic uplift of deep methane hydrate/clathrate deposits to shallow shelf areas since the last interglacial would still present a problem for the future.
The original calculations for long term sustainable human population averaged 1 billion heavy meat eaters driving and burning to the max the biosphere could process, perhaps well under half that now. 2 billion at a living standard of healthy low meat diet and green living, and 3 billion at near starvation poor vegans, again all half of what they had been and falling with depletion and pollution. When methane runaway hits it will be zero long term.

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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:15 pm 
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Feed them a few hundred of these!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEtldt-FI8Y

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“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:47 pm 
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I see one giant flaw in the eat plants to save the planet.

There are zillions of acres of grasslands. These grasslands can feed cows with nothing but what mother nature provides.

To grow crops on these grasslands would require tons of fertilizer, tons of herbicides, and more fresh water than the planet has to spare. Growing a pound of lettuce on these lands would require much more than growing a pound of beef.

Plus, the fertilizer industry emits 100 times more methane than all the cow farts and belches.

The real solution to this problem is to only eat 100% grass fed beef, as the corn used for feed is fertilized, and that land could be used to feed humans.

The ultimate solution is population control, which I know is a touchy subject.

Back in the 1960s we had the Zero Population Growth movement. There were a little more than 3 billion on the planet then. We're over double that now.

Capitalism requires constant and continual growth, and when they saw the ZPG movement potentially eroding their continued growth for continued rising stock prices the attacked. Almost every TV show, every radio program and every other mass media had a woman telling her man, "My biological clock is ticking" and the ZPG movement was dead in its tracks.

Simply put, we are rapidly approaching more people than the planet can feed. And it looks like there is no end in sight.

I know this is unpopular, drastic, and will never happen, but worldwide population reduction is the only key to the survival of the human species.

Not eating meat and digging up the pasturelands will only make things worse, not better. IMHO this is propaganda by the PETA and Veggie community. DON'T FALL FOR IT - you are being manipulated if you believe that. Big agriculture want's your dollars for their continued growth.

And perpetual growth cannot happen in a closed system.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Chow down
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:33 pm 
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http//www.wildideabuffalo.com has some great ecological prairie land restoration.

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“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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