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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:44 pm 
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iovanic;
"Sounds like I stepped on some toes.
That's okay, it's not the first time.
If we've caused these problems then we can solve them, forest.
It's a matter of will and want."

No mate, you could not step on my toes if you tried twice as hard.
I just call bullshit when i see it.
Like your latest faulty logic "If we've caused these problems then we can solve them, forest."
Try driving off a cliff and driving back up the cliff then hey?

But that may well be too personal and offend you so instead explain to me how we will restore the 60-70% of species destroyed already.
Cloning i suppose or maybe we can just imagine them?
After all If we've caused these problems then we can solve them right?
Then you can go on to enlighten us on refreezing the Arctic because If we've caused these problems then we can solve them right...
After that i will give you some more shit without stepping on your toes, or you on mine


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
"If we've caused these problems then we can solve them." I suppose humans have caused industrial society and humans can destroy it,
with a bunch of nuclear bombs lifting up enough aerosols, long enough, to cool the oceans warming the ice cover on billions of tons of methane. Cooling those deposits in the permafrost, too. First, shut down all the reactors so they do not cause a hollocaust of radiation. All the underground fortresses are built and stocked already, but the survivors have to build factories that pull CO2 out of the air and plant 3 trillion trees by drones as the long winter ends. Oh, there is a time limit. When the first 50 GT 'burp' of methane goes, they had better launch. It won't take long to start going into a chain reaction. That first release will come at any time, but assuredly by zero sea ice in the Arctic in 4 years. It will take an industrial effort to bring CO2 back into a safe range. 5,000 carbonate factories should do it, and 10,000 tree planting drones should do it, and 2,500 OMTEC devices should finish the ocean cool down. The main thing is very little emissions from the vastly lower human population. Let's hope the lesson is learned. :mrgreen:


Johhny you crack me up mate from your prepper industrial perspective :crazy: "
"The main thing is very little emissions from the vastly lower human population. Let's hope the lesson is learned."...lol!
Which humans have very low emissions and low populations?
Oh wait...Sushil has just described that endlessly...hunter-gatherers.
Why do you even post on his topic honestly?
And why bother with predictions when no sane person or scientist does anymore?
You quote Shakhova's 50gt methane burst, which she never said already to begin with.
She said a large release of whatever amount, 50 was just a random figure sucked from her lips while she is out working her butt off.

Thousands of factories and drones lol, you are smart and insane it seems but i mean no disrespect haha!
Wish you luck in your bunker which i suspect you have well stocked :razz:


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:56 pm 
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I guess someone has a different view on what the problem actually is.

My view is the problem is the DIRECTION mankind in going: Continue that and the world's eco-system will be trashed, damaged beyond repair. Not my idea of something to be proud of or look forward to.

My view also includes that direction can be changed; paths rerouted, goals switched from petty, short-term wealth-building to fixing where we went wrong and building a future we can be proud to hand to those who follow. We got a chance to be the folks who make the biggest and most constructive changes in history.

But we have to want to. That's where the 'will' part comes in, forest dweller.
Some want to sit on the sidelines and whine and while I'm glad the fellow watching the sheep comes yelling about wolves, I don't think much when he first blames others for the flocks peril, then stands by while others have to rush off to save the sheep.

Damn right we can change the direction of the world: we're the ones who made the problems and we're the ones with the opportunity to fix them.

You can join in or go on whining.
Your choice.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:50 pm 
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I also believe that the path can be reversed. My hope is we start to use our technology for good rather than bad. One way we can make a difference is in transportation. EV vehicle technology is becoming better and more popular. The government has even begun to encourage consumers to take advantage of environment friendly tech. In general US sentiment is in favor of expanding tax credits for EVs https://www.autolist.com/electric#news= ... c-vehicles
The conversation about healing our environment is more open than ever before and we are beginning to apply tech appropriately.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:18 am 
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...........
The last few posts in this thread were about the possibility of saving environment......Your house catches fire.......If you make efforts to stop the fire in its initial stages you will succeed in saving the house.......If you try saving your house after 99% of it has been destroyed by fire, you will only manage to save the last 1% of your house.

You cannot save a person after killing him.
You can only save him by not killing him.

You cannot save environment after killing it with industrial activity.
You can only save it by not killing it with industrial activity.

How much environment has been destroyed?
How much environment is left on earth?

More than 99% of environment has already been destroyed........Industrial revolution began 250 years ago but most of the industrial activity took place in the last hundred years........Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.

Industrial society has decimated forest cover with millions of industries and corporations.......Industrial society has destroyed billions of acres of forests........This has decimated millions of land species that lived in forests........Reversal of this destruction can only happen in millions of years.

Industrial society has decimated millions of marine species with industrial fishing, billions of tonnes of industrial chemicals and waste, acidification of oceans, by creating oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans.........Reversal of this destruction can only happen in millions of years.

Regeneration / revival of millions of land and marine species will require a period of millions of years.

If your house gets destroyed by fire you can build another house.

If environment gets destroyed by industrial activity you cannot create another environment because man cannot create environment.........Only nature can create environment over a period of millions of years.
.
.

More than 99% of environmental collapse has already happened........Millions of land and marine species have already been decimated.......Only human collapse is yet to happen........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.

99% of your house has been destroyed by fire........What do you do to save the remaining 1%???.......You have to douse the fire immediately........You cannot say you want to save what is left of your house but you don't want to put out the fire.

Industrial activity has destroyed 99% of environment........If you want to save the remaining 1% you have to stop all industrial activity immediately........You cannot say you want to save the little environment that is left but you don't want to stop industrial activity.

Billions of urban people are running millions of industries and corporations that have already destroyed 99% of environment........If you want to save the remaining 1% environment you have to stop millions of industries and corporations immediately.

Is it going to happen?
Never.
.
.

It is all over this time.......If man comes back on earth in future he should have the wisdom to stop at agrarian stage.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years hardly destroying any environment........Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years destroying very little environment.......Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.
.
.

"Food Searching Species" did not destroy environment in millions of years........"Food Producing Society" destroyed very little environment in 10,000 years........"Consumer Goods Producing Society" has destroyed the planet in just 100 years.

Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.......Agrarian society did not destroy oceans.........Oceans were almost 100% safe in agrarian stage.........Agrarian society did not destroy the atmosphere with billions of tonnes of industrial gases, automobile exhaust, airline and shipping exhaust.........Agrarian society destroyed only a fraction of forests destroyed by industrial society.........Industrial society has destroyed forests for agriculture PLUS industry..........Agrarian society destroyed forests only for agriculture.

Environmental collapse happens when you destroy all three ecosystems - Forests, Oceans and Atmosphere.........Only industrial society has destroyed all three.......Only industrial society could have destroyed all three.

Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.
.......


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:49 am 
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"I guess someone has a different view on what the problem actually is.

My view is the problem is the DIRECTION mankind in going: Continue that and the world's eco-system will be trashed, damaged beyond repair. Not my idea of something to be proud of or look forward to.

My view also includes that direction can be changed; paths rerouted, goals switched from petty, short-term wealth-building to fixing where we went wrong and building a future we can be proud to hand to those who follow. We got a chance to be the folks who make the biggest and most constructive changes in history.

But we have to want to. That's where the 'will' part comes in, forest dweller.
Some want to sit on the sidelines and whine and while I'm glad the fellow watching the sheep comes yelling about wolves, I don't think much when he first blames others for the flocks peril, then stands by while others have to rush off to save the sheep.

Damn right we can change the direction of the world: we're the ones who made the problems and we're the ones with the opportunity to fix them.

You can join in or go on whining.
Your choice."

My choice to agree with your "heroic" way of thinking to save the planet hey?
The fact you resort to personal attacks on top does not qualify you as such.
The whining seems familiar to you, not me.
You demonstrate only the industrial washing of your brain when you say all problems can be fixed by same.
And fail to even answer or consider the extinction i mentioned.
That is the best you got iovanic, calling others whiners...how mature.
Makes you an enemy that is stopping your pipe dream of "humans" fixing what they destroy.
You have not understood a single word Mr. Yadav said.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:43 am 
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My 'name-calling' or 'problem-labeling';(which seems a more apt description, methinx) has had one effect: it's opened conversation on the subject.
I don't understand what the poster means? Go back and see how old this thread is, forest. You'll see I was among the very first to reply.
Not buying into the gloom and doom doesn't mean lack of understanding.
It means there's more to it then just that gloom and doom.
The end of the world isn't here yet, forest....unless you've already given up.
That's always the first and often final step to failure...giving up.

Good luck with that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Forest Dweller wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
"If we've caused these problems then we can solve them." I suppose humans have caused industrial society and humans can destroy it,
with a bunch of nuclear bombs lifting up enough aerosols, long enough, to cool the oceans warming the ice cover on billions of tons of methane. Cooling those deposits in the permafrost, too. First, shut down all the reactors so they do not cause a hollocaust of radiation. All the underground fortresses are built and stocked already, but the survivors have to build factories that pull CO2 out of the air and plant 3 trillion trees by drones as the long winter ends. Oh, there is a time limit. When the first 50 GT 'burp' of methane goes, they had better launch. It won't take long to start going into a chain reaction. That first release will come at any time, but assuredly by zero sea ice in the Arctic in 4 years. It will take an industrial effort to bring CO2 back into a safe range. 5,000 carbonate factories should do it, and 10,000 tree planting drones should do it, and 2,500 OMTEC devices should finish the ocean cool down. The main thing is very little emissions from the vastly lower human population. Let's hope the lesson is learned. :mrgreen:


Johhny you crack me up mate from your prepper industrial perspective :crazy: "
"The main thing is very little emissions from the vastly lower human population. Let's hope the lesson is learned."...lol!
Which humans have very low emissions and low populations?
Oh wait...Sushil has just described that endlessly...hunter-gatherers.
Why do you even post on his topic honestly?
And why bother with predictions when no sane person or scientist does anymore?
You quote Shakhova's 50gt methane burst, which she never said already to begin with.
She said a large release of whatever amount, 50 was just a random figure sucked from her lips while she is out working her butt off.

Thousands of factories and drones lol, you are smart and insane it seems but i mean no disrespect haha!
Wish you luck in your bunker which i suspect you have well stocked :razz:

I never bought one of those 3 million dollar stocked and equiped for 20 years bunkers. I couldn't afford it and couldn't stand living underground in a self made prison. I'm too old. We don't know for sure, but it is a good bet that the PIOMAS zero ice point reached in 2022 will begin the rapid expansion of the 1500 GTs of Arctic methane deposits. As it is, since 2011 the hundreds of 10 meter wide methane fountains in summer became thousands up to a kilometer wide and 'boiling seas' from methane gas exscape as far as Yupik fishermen could see. Navies are up there to ignite them rather that let them be the 100X CO2 heat trapping the first year. The 50 GTs could be in a burp with its 2 pound sensitivity to kinetic sudden expansion 170 times in volume, or it the themperature goes up 2*F from latent heat build up. It could be a rapidly cummulative bunch of releases to 50 GT one year, 200GT the next and 500 the next. Most will certainly find out with global temperature rise acclerating to 1*F per year and more until extinction of surface life and then on to thermal max with clouds like Venus, perhaps going into equatorial superrotation. Maybe there will be that attempt of using nukes like a Toba Effect to stop it. I point out the only way out possible besides Divine Intervention. It is far too late to control the population and pollution already in the system causing the inevitable Blue Ocean event and zero ice , and that darn latent heat effect. We know it went up fast at one point during the PETM and the Permian end. It could be our demise next decade, and possibly the 2040s if that methane is just Natalia's fantasy. Many people alive today will witness it. Indeed, we have been witnessing the begnning stages for a while, and it will not get any better, even if everyone went all solar one child, quit eating meat and no fossil fuel use, tomorrow.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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