EnviroLink Forum

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An accident victim bleeding profusely is rushed to the hospital.......The doctors try to save him by injecting blood into his body without stopping the source of bleeding.

Forests are being destroyed by industry........... People are trying to save forests by planting trees without stopping industry which is destroying the forests.

Height of insanity.......Insanity raised to the power of Infinity.
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If your house catches fire what will you do..........You will save your house by dousing the fire Or start building a new house?

Green cover is not saved by planting trees...........Green cover is saved by not cutting down trees.........Forests of the world were not created by man by planting trees........It was nature that did the work of planting trees over a period of millions of years.........The seeds of millions of species of plants and trees were spread all over the world by animals, birds, wind and water.......That is how all the forests came into existence.

Nature grew trees and forests on all the land of the world that was fertile and which received rainfall over a period of millions of years........Industrial society has destroyed most of these forests in just hundred years.

Industrial man has destroyed billions of acres of forests with Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road networks, Hundreds of Thousands of Ports and Airports.

Once the forests are destroyed by Construction Industry, Mining Industry and other industries the forest land no longer remains forest land........It gets covered by cement, concrete and asphalt or it gets so poisoned and degraded that it cannot grow trees.........Billions of acres of forests have been destroyed by industry.........Trillions of trees have been destroyed by industry........How are you going to compensate for trillions of trees that have been destroyed due to destruction of billions of acres of forests........By planting trees on cement, concrete and asphalt?

Or is the earth increasing in size and adding billions of acres of extra fertile soil where you can plant your trees???.......This planet is very small - just 40,000 km in circumference.......70% of the surface area is covered by oceans......Just 30% is land.......70% of land area is desert, ice/ glaciers, rocky mountains and barren land......Just 30% of land area is fertile soil which can grow forests......Industrial society has killed a big percentage of this fertile soil with industrial activity.

For 50 years this world has been fooled by the nonsense of planting trees.

It takes millions of years for a forest containing millions of plant and animal species to come into existence.........Once a forest is destroyed it is gone for millions of years.

Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years not a forest........Stop the nonsense of creating forests by planting trees.
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Industrial society has poisoned food.......Industrial society has wasted food.......And finally industrial society is going to destroy all food on earth.

Industrial society has poisoned food with billions of tonnes of insecticides, pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, additives, preservatives, colours, flavours.

Industrial society has wasted billions of tonnes of food during storage, transportation, processing and distribution......Hotel industry, Restaurant industry, Railways, Airline and Shipping industry have wasted billions of tonnes of food......Billions of tonnes of food has been wasted because of excessive buying and then throwing and due to the nonsense of expiry dates.......In pre-industrial society there was almost zero wastage of food because food was produced and consumed locally.
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Industry is destroying agriculture.......If industrial activity for production of thousands of consumer goods is not stopped immediately, there will be no agriculture of any kind left in this world.......There will be no industrial agriculture, no organic agriculture, no permaculture.......Every kind of agriculture will be destroyed.......Every method of food production will get destroyed.

The whole world is going to die from starvation and thirst in the coming years.......Industrial society is destroying agriculture by destroying fertile soil and by changing global weather with industrial activity.

Billions of acres of agricultural soil has been destroyed by industry.

Agriculture requires regularity of weather........It requires heat, cold and rain at the right time and in the right measure.

Global weather is regulated by Forest Cover, Ice Cover, Ocean Temperature and Atmospheric Temperature........Industrial activity has decimated Forest Cover.........Industrial activity has decimated Ice Cover / Glaciers........Oceans and the Atmosphere have been made warmer.........These changes have made the weather extreme, irregular and unpredictable........This has led to drastic increase in the intensity and frequency of Droughts, Floods, Storms, Cyclones, Periods of Extreme Heat and Cold........Agricultural production has already been affected by these changes........Agriculture is going to collapse completely in the near future.

There will be no food for man to eat........Man has already decimated fish in the oceans with industrial fishing.

The land and the sea are the only two sources of food on earth.........Industrial man has destroyed both.

Industrial activity is melting glaciers that give birth to rivers in this world........Most rivers will cease to exist very soon.......Industrial society has already destroyed millions of ponds and lakes with construction industry and other industries........Groundwater reserves have already been depleted by diesel and electric pumps.

No Food.........No Water.

End of man on earth.
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Endless debate on environment is madness of industrial society that invented the print industry, radio, television and internet........When your house catches fire you rush to douse the flames, you don't engage in billions of pages of discussion on the hazards and dangers of fire........Industry has destroyed environment in hundred years........Instead of stopping industrial activity immediately people are engaging in billions of pages of debate on environmental destruction.

Nothing is going to happen........Industrial society will be debating even at the last moment of its existence on earth.
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This planet is very small........Just 40,000 km in circumference.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

Exponential Extra Environment.

[It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment.]

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Give free food to the urban population......Stop production of thousands of consumer goods immediately........A fraction of world population is already producing food for entire population.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.......More than 99% of collapse has already happened......Man is next on the list.......Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
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You can never escape from chaos, madness and destruction once you have created extra jobs and professions.........Industrial society has done just that........Industrial society has created hundreds of extra and destructive professions for its urban population which is not producing food which was the main occupation for thousands of years before industrialization.

For millions of years there was just one main activity / occupation on earth - "Searching for Food" / "Producing Food"..........Urban population of industrial society is the anomaly that is producing consumer goods and services.

For millions of years, both adults and the offspring of millions of animal species "searched for food".

For 1 million years in hunter_gatherer society both adults and children "searched for food".

For 10,000 years in agrarian society, most of the adults and children "produced food"

In industrial society which has only existed for 100 years, urban adults are producing consumer goods and services in industries and corporations..........Their children go to schools and universities where they learn how to produce and sell consumer goods in future.
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What would happen to your home if 1000 people entered and started working non-stop, picking up all the things lying in your home, breaking them up to produce new things out of them?

Your home will get ruined in one day.

This is exactly what has happened to the planet in the last 100 years.......Billions of urban people worked non-stop in millions of industries and corporations producing thousands of consumer goods which has led to the destruction of forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere........It has led to the decimation of millions of land and marine species.
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This planet is very small........Just 40,000 km in circumference.

Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment.

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.......More than 99% of collapse has already happened......Man is next on the list.......Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
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The best help for nature would be total destruction of nature.......There is hardly any nature left to save anyway, Most of it is already gone........Total destruction of nature will result in total destruction of humans........This will lead to total regeneration of nature over a period of millions of years.

As long as industrial man exists on earth he will never allow nature to regenerate........Absence of industrial man is a pre-requisite for regeneration of nature.

More than 99% of environment has already been destroyed.........Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.

Industrial society has destroyed billions of acres of forests........This has decimated millions of land species that lived in forests........Reversal of this destruction can only happen in millions of years.

Industrial society has decimated millions of marine species with industrial fishing, billions of tonnes of industrial chemicals and waste, acidification of oceans, by creating oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans.........Reversal of this destruction can only happen in millions of years.

Regeneration / revival of millions of land and marine species will require a period of millions of years.

If your house gets destroyed by fire you can build another house.

If environment gets destroyed by industrial activity you cannot create another environment because man cannot create environment.........Only nature can create environment over a period of millions of years.
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It is all over this time.......If man ever comes back to earth in future he should have the wisdom to stop at agrarian stage.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years hardly destroying any environment........Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years destroying very little environment.......Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.
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Years have been changing on earth for millions of years.........It is only industrial man that has turned this event into a show of decadence and depravity.......The nonsense of millions of celebrations in millions of hotels, restaurants, bars, pubs, discos has existed for only a few decades.......Pre-industrial society was free of this madness because it did not have hotels, restaurants, discos.

Forests, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere have been destroyed.
Happy New Year.

Millions of land and marine species have been decimated.
Happy New Year.

The planet is dying and gasping for last breath.
Happy New Year.

Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.......Happy New Year.

Destroy the planet whole year and then party on new year eve to welcome another year of destruction.........Repeat this year after year.
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Mega celebration is a consequence of industrialization and urbanization........Mega celebration is a disease, insanity and criminality of industrial society........Pre-industrial celebrations were very simple affairs because of the absence of electricity, oil, industrial consumer goods, transportation industry, communication industry, advertising and marketing industry.

Industrial celebrations are Mega Destruction Events, Mega Criminal Events.......Pre-industrial celebrations were non destructive because they were primarily limited to prayer and worship........Industrial celebrations are highly destructive because they involve selling and buying of consumer goods and services........Production of consumer goods and services has destroyed the planet

Production of thousands of consumer goods and services has destroyed forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.........Production of thousands of consumer goods and services has decimated millions of land and marine species........Production of thousands of consumer goods and services has generated billions of tonnes of plastic waste, chemical waste, gaseous waste and e-waste.

Industrial society is destroying the planet 24x7, 365 days of the year........This destruction increases thousands of times during the festival season because of excessive increase in consumerism.
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Industrialization = Decadence, depravity and unrestrained pleasure chasing.
Industrialization = Millions of pubs, bars, restaurants and parties.
Industrialization = Millions of tonnes of alcohol and designer drugs.
Industrialization = Pornography Industry, Film Industry, Fashion Industry, Sports Industry, Music and Entertainment Industry.

Industrialization = Hedonism raised to the power of infinity.

Industrial society is engaged in two main activities.........Destruction and Entertainment.

Work Hard.........Play Hard.
Destroy Hard......Enjoy Hard.
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Excessive celebration is a disease, insanity, abnormality and criminality of industrial society........Industrialization has led to bastardization of all festivals of all religions in this world.

There was almost zero celebration in pre-industrial society........Imagine celebrating festivals without industrial consumer goods, without electricity and oil, without transportation industry and communication industry, without corporations, shopping malls and online shopping, without lights and sound amplifiers, without live telecast / television / social media, without advertising industry and marketing industry.

That was the way festivals were celebrated for thousands of years before industrialization.......That was the real way of celebrating festivals.

Pre-industrial society did not have Festival Sales and Discounts........Industrial society kills billions of animals during the festival season.........There was very little killing of animals during festivals in pre-industrial society because of the absence of Meat Industry, Industrial Slaughter Houses, Refrigeration Industry, Transportation Industry.

Festivals of industrial society are mega criminal events........Industrial festivals are about shopping, selling, buying, discount sales........Industrial society has barely existed for hundred years.

Festivals were festivals before industrialization........Industrial festivals are not Festivals........Industrial festivals are mega destruction events.......All festivals of all religions became mega destructive after industrialization.......Industrial society which runs on electricity and oil has existed for only hundred years........The way festivals are celebrated in industrial society was not the way festivals were celebrated for thousands of years before industrialization.

Man lived in non-industrial societies for hundreds of thousands of years.......Pre-industrial society did not even have a holiday on festival days.......The nonsense of holidays came with urban offices, urban jobs and professions.

Industrialization has led to bastardization of all festivals of all religions in this world.........You cannot worship God after destroying God's creation with industrial activity.

Industrial society has destroyed forests, rivers, oceans, atmosphere........Industrial society has decimated millions of land and marine species.

Industrial society has destroyed God's creation with industrial activity.
You cannot worship God after destroying God's creation.

Mega celebration is a disease and insanity of industrial society which has existed for only hundred years........Festivals were very quiet and simple affairs in pre-industrial society........There was no discussion / debate on festivals because there was no Media Industry........There was no live telecast of festivals because there was no Communication Industry.
In pre-industrial society people lived in small villages........There were no large gatherings because there was no Transportation Industry.........The madness of large gatherings and mega processions came with industrialization and urbanization.

Pre-industrial festivals were non-destructive.

Industrial festivals are Mega Destructive because they involve use of Electricity, Oil, Industrial Consumer Goods, Transportation Industry, Communication Industry, Advertising Industry, Marketing Industry.

Pre-industrial festivals were about prayer and worship, singing and dancing.

Industrial festivals are about consumerism, shopping, selling, buying, sales and discounts.

Production of thousands of consumer goods has destroyed forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.

Industrial society is destroying this planet every day of the year........This destruction increases thousands of times during the festival season because of exponential increase in consumerism.
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Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.
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Of course you can worship god after destruction of the very things god has given us. God's forgiveness and his wisdom to create humans as beings capable of learning and doing better after committing sins is well known to us who believe in being 'borne again'.
I believe in a bigger god then the one you seem to, Sushilydv. god isn't limited to the earth.
Thank god!

Pre-industrial society had religion..........Industrial society has religion industry........Every activity became destructive after industrialization........Religion became destructive after industrialization.

Religion did lead to hatred, violence and war in pre-industrial society but it did not destroy environment.

Pre-industrial religion did not destroy environment.
Industrial religion has destroyed environment.

Pre-industrial society had almost zero debate on religion because the medium for debate did not exist before industrialization........The problem of endless debate came with industrialization........Industrial society has billions of pages of debate on religion because of print industry, radio, television and internet.

Pre-industrial society had very few copies of religious texts because of the absence of paper industry and print industry........Industrial society has billions of copies of religious books........Printing of billions of copies of religious books has destroyed billions of Trees.......Industrial society has destroyed God's creation for printing religious books.

Pre-industrial society had very few places of worship.......There were very few temples, mosques or churches in pre-industrial society when cement industry, steel industry, construction industry and transportation industry did not exist.......Only the Kings and few other rich people could build structures for worship........Industrial society has millions of places of worship........It has millions of temples, mosques and churches.......Every colony in every city has a place of worship........Construction of millions of temples, mosques and churches has destroyed billions of Trees and millions of acres of fertile soil........Industrial society has destroyed God's creation for building temples, mosques and churches.
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Physical Work, Subjective Experience, Religion and Spirituality did not destroy the planet in millions of years..........Scientific / Technological Thinking has destroyed the planet in just hundred years.

We can use our time and energy for three kinds of activities........Physical Work, Subjective Work (Experience) and Mental Work.

For millions of years environment did not get destroyed because activity was limited to physical work or subjective experience.........Millions of animal species did physical work........Man did physical work in hunter_gatherer stage and agrarian stage.......A very small percentage of population that did not do physical work spent its time and energy on subjective experience - religion, spirituality, yoga, meditation, pranayama and the arts.

Largescale destruction of environment began when man started using his time and energy for mental work - Science, Technology, Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, Business, Finance, Economics.........This led to invention of industrial machines running on Steam, Electricity and Oil........This led to industrialization and production (and selling) of thousands of consumer goods and services.

As long as we limited our activity to physical work, subjective experience, religion and spirituality we destroyed very little environment.

When we switched over to Scientific / Technological Thinking, we started producing (and selling) thousands of consumer goods in millions of industries and corporations and ended up destroying the planet in just about 100 years.
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Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food for millions of years.........Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services in the last hundred years.......In hundred years industrial man has destroyed what millions of other species kept safe for millions of years.

Industrial man has wasted the last 50 years engaging in billions of pages of debate on what needs to be done to save environment.......Height of insanity and abnormality........Isn't it crystal clear???........Industrial man has destroyed exponential extra environment.......It was this extra destruction of environment that had to be stopped decades ago......Now there is hardly anything left to save.

Millions of other species kept the environment safe for millions of years with zero discussion and debate.

Industrial man will keep debating till the last day of his existence on earth.

Billions of pages of debate is the disease and insanity of industrial society that invented the print industry, radio, television and internet.

Discussion and debate is the final madness of industrial society.

FWIW, it did help in increasing life expectancy and allowed things like this forum, but at incredible costs, and likely enough to destroy industrial society itself.

After destroying environment humans will not even exist on earth.......Lifespan will be zero.

Human species is not the only species on earth........This planet was home to millions of land and marine species which have been decimated by industrial activity........The lives and lifespans of millions of land and marine species have been destroyed.

Industrial activity has destroyed billions of acres of forests.......Lifespan of forests has been destroyed.

Industrial activity has poisoned rivers and oceans with billions of tonnes of industrial chemicals and waste.......Rivers have been destroyed by industrial dams, hydro projects,......Oceans have been made acidic and warmer........There are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans.........The lifespans of clean and healthy rivers and oceans have been destroyed.

Atmosphere has been poisoned by billions of tonnes of industrial gases, automobile and rail exhaust, airline and shipping exhaust........The lifespan of clean atmosphere has been destroyed.

Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed the lifespan of nature which sustained all living things on earth for millions of years.
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You're right. "....and allowed things like this forum, but at incredible costs, and likely enough to destroy industrial society itself."

Not likely.......Industrial society is guaranteed to be destroyed within the next few years........Everything else except industrial society has already been destroyed.......Everything else except human species has already been destroyed.

More than 99% of destruction has already happened.......More than 99% of collapse has already happened.......Millions of land and marine species have already been decimated......Only human species is yet to be decimated.

Millions of land species have been decimated by destruction of billions of acres of forests.

Only about 4% of the biomass of mammals now belongs to wild mammals......60% is livestock / farm animals raised for meat industry.......36% is human.

Millions of marine species have been decimated by industrial fishing, billions of tonnes of industrial chemicals and waste, acidification of oceans, oxygen deprived dead zones in oceans, billions of tonnes of plastic waste and oil spills.

Billions of acres of forests have been destroyed.
Glaciers have been decimated by global warming / climate change.
Rivers and oceans poisoned by billions of tonnes of industrial chemicals and waste.
Atmosphere poisoned by billions of tonnes of industrial gases, automobile and rail exhaust, airline and shipping exhaust.
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Millions of other species did not have environmental forums.......They had zero debate on environment.......Yet they did not destroy environment in millions of years.

Pre-industrial society did not have environmental forums.......It had almost zero debate on environment......Yet most of the environment was safe in pre-industrial society.

Industrial society has environmental forums........It has billions of pages of debate on environment.......And there is hardly any environment left on earth.

Billions of pages of debate on environment is another toxic waste of industrial society which has also produced billions of tonnes of plastic waste, chemical waste, gaseous waste and e-waste.

Industrial activity has destroyed environment in hundred years.

Absence of industrial activity saved environment for millions of years.
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There is the small chance of an aerosol event well enough planned and big enough, like a "Toba Event", followed by the survivors building drones to plant the 3.3 trillion trees humans have killed for their room and agriculture, Gen 4 modular powered CO2 to carbonate brick factories, at least a hundred thousand or more, and a thousand OMTEC refrigeration units in the oceans to keep the sea ice cover on 1500 GTs of methane clathrates and prevent the warming of the tundra with its 1050 GTs of methane hydrate in swellings ready to blow. Otherwise there is already enough heat in the oceans , over 6 billion Hiroshima atom bombs worth and increasing at now 7 per second, to melt the sea ice to a zero point in 5 years or so then for methane runaway to start within 2 years after. Then only 4 or 5 years to begin killing everything on the planetary surface, then in the oceans after a lag, on the way up to a thermal max of +13.8*C over 1750 pre-industrial temperature norms around mid century for most and the last degree or so taking until around 2100. Tardigrades, some bacteria, thermal vent life, underground extremophiles, some jellyfish and sharks may survive the acid rains and oceans with low O@ atmosphere for the 125K years it takes for cool down enough for the sun to shine again and millions more years to re-evolve surface life after cyanobacteria once again restores the O2, and acids have turned to rocks and mineral deposits. It looks like it could be worse than the Permian Great Dying 252 MYA and take at least 50 million years for full diversity of species to return. Talk about destroying minds and the environment. The only thing worse would be when the Earth gets melted into the red giant phase of our sun in 6 billion years.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Now the results of CAGW are hitting harder and harder, as idiots deny it exists and others are filled with hopium that it can easily be stopped without massive population reduction. Record floods from an atmosphere holding more and more water as heat rises, and more and more fires, too. https://wildfiretoday.com/2019/05/19/wi ... fire-size/

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

I'm new here and haven't read all the posts, but this is a big thing with me.

Capitalism relies on constant, perpetual growth, and this is impossible in a closed system (the Earth).

In capitalism, half or more of the corporation is owned by stockholders who do not contribute any labor to the company. These stockholders expect their stock to grow in value. If the stock doesn't grow in value, they will bail out and 'jump ship'. So the corporation has to sell more widgets this year than last, next year than this ad infinitum.

So the corporation wants to do things like decrease the life cycle of the products so you have to buy them again and again (Chiclets items), raise prices, and it also depends on increased population to create more customers.

I remember the zero population growth days (ZPG). We hippies decided to have zero to two children max. Well we weren't over-breeding enough for corporate growth, so all of a sudden, almost every female in a TV show, overt advertisements, and elsewhere was talking about their biological clock ticking and ZPG was abandoned. More customers.

And along with more customers corporate biz wants you to buy more items. Babies need disposable diapers -- when you buy a soft drink, instead of a returnable bottle you buy a plastic one -- instead of buying a razor blade, now you buy a new razor along with the blade -- instead of a pen with refillable ink, you buy a new pen every time it runs out of ink -- all to feed the perpetual growth necessary to keep the stockholders happy.

A small business on the other hand, simply needs to make enough money to pay the salaries of those who work there (including the owners). There is no need to sell more widgets this year than last year.

I don't know how to reverse this trend, but I start by using an electric razor, refusing to buy water or soft drinks in bottles (I bottle my own tap water to take with me), try to do as much business with mom & pop stores as I can, and tailor my shopping habits to buy things that have the smallest environmental impact.

While others in our neighborhood throw out multiple trash bins per week, we have a small bag about the size of those ubiquitous t-shirt bags every week.

It doesn't seem to make a dent, but at least we have a good conscience.

Bob