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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

I can understand not wanting to have actual information on such things in favor of assumptions picked up in random places. :mrgreen:


You're absolutely correct. I should study those articles so that I don't believe what some dumb ass says on some random web site on how people who commit suicide are cowards.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:06 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

I can understand not wanting to have actual information on such things in favor of assumptions picked up in random places. :mrgreen:


You're absolutely correct. I should study those articles so that I don't believe what some dumb ass says on some random web site on how people who commit suicide are cowards.


I guess you conveiniently forgot why I made that statement, but why expect anything close to the truth from you. You can jump to whatever conclusions your addled brain wishes. :-({|=

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:51 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

I can understand not wanting to have actual information on such things in favor of assumptions picked up in random places. :mrgreen:


You're absolutely correct. I should study those articles so that I don't believe what some dumb ass says on some random web site on how people who commit suicide are cowards.


I guess you conveiniently forgot why I made that statement, but why expect anything close to the truth from you. You can jump to whatever conclusions your addled brain wishes. :-({|=



I'm sorry Wayne, yeah currently I get a little lost sometime, tis the medication. Surely you didn't want me to respond to your stupid statement of "But are these not also problems in children, who have not been alive for way too long? "?? I mean, some days are really long for me and others are short, so relatively speaking, what is way too long? Time being relative and all that shit.

So, whatcha talkin' bout?

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:27 am 
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SiberD wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
You're absolutely correct. I should study those articles so that I don't believe what some dumb ass says on some random web site on how people who commit suicide are cowards.


I guess you conveiniently forgot why I made that statement, but why expect anything close to the truth from you. You can jump to whatever conclusions your addled brain wishes. :-({|=



I'm sorry Wayne, yeah currently I get a little lost sometime, tis the medication. Surely you didn't want me to respond to your stupid statement of "But are these not also problems in children, who have not been alive for way too long? "?? I mean, some days are really long for me and others are short, so relatively speaking, what is way too long? Time being relative and all that shit.

So, whatcha talkin' bout?


Come back to it when you are not stoned and if enough of your brain cells survive. It is a waste of my time otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:55 am 
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An interesting paper on the history of suicide and the philosophy surrounding it that was usually behind a pay-to-view wall.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/

2.1 Ancient and Classical Views of Suicide

Philosophical discourse about suicide stretches back at least to the time of Plato. Still, prior to the Stoics at least, suicide tended to get sporadic rather than systematic attention from philosophers in the ancient Mediterranean world. As John Cooper has noted (Cooper 1989, 10), neither ancient Greek nor Latin had a single word that aptly translates our ‘suicide,’ even though most of the ancient city-states criminalized self-killing.

Plato explicitly discussed suicide in two works. First, in Phaedo, Socrates expresses guarded enthusiasm for the thesis, associated with the Pythagoreans, that suicide is always wrong because it represents our releasing ourselves (i.e., our souls) from a “guard-post” (i.e., our bodies) the gods have placed us in as a form of punishment (Phaedo 61b-62c). Later, in the Laws, Plato claimed that suicide is disgraceful and its perpetrators should be buried in unmarked graves. However, Plato recognized four exceptions to this principle: (1) when one's mind is morally corrupted and one's character can therefore not be salvaged (Laws IX 854a3–5), (2) when the self-killing is done by judicial order, as in the case of Socrates, (3) when the self-killing is compelled by extreme and unavoidable personal misfortune, and (4) when the self-killing results from shame at having participated in grossly unjust actions. (Laws IX 873c-d) Suicide under these circumstances can be excused, but, according to Plato, it is otherwise an act of cowardice or laziness undertaken by individuals too delicate to manage life's vicissitudes. Aristotle's only discussion of suicide (Nicomachean Ethics 1138a5–14) is a difficult and confusing passage in which he attempts to explain how suicide can be unjust and deserving of punishment if the individual who could be treated unjustly is the suicidal individual herself. He concludes that suicide is somehow a wrong to the state

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:09 am 
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SiberD wrote:
I saw that on Facebook, you know, where someone wanted you to post that to your wall for a day? I didn't but thought I would throw it out here for shits and giggles ;-)


Be careful with those happy pills...or patches...or lollipops, whatever the case may be.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:27 am 
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Fosgate wrote:
SiberD wrote:
I saw that on Facebook, you know, where someone wanted you to post that to your wall for a day? I didn't but thought I would throw it out here for shits and giggles ;-)


Be careful with those happy pills...or patches...or lollipops, whatever the case may be.


Fosgate, you're not telling me anything I don't know. Right now, I don't have a choice, well, I do if I want to be in a lot of pain. Right now I'm am weaning myself, under a surgeon's direction, off of vicodin and valium, to gabapentin and tramadol. I'd say I am half way there alternating between the two. I absolutely want to get off the vicodin. Crap, I want to get off of the gabapentin and tramadol too but I've been told it may be a four to six month process. Meantime, I cannot even take ibuprofen, that was the only thing I took before the surgery. One of the reasons I had the surgery, in addition to the pain, and the possibility of my condition getting to where I lost bladder and bowel control, was to also get off of taking sometimes up to 2400mg/day of ibuprofen for almost six years.

So, thanks for the advice, but I know where I am at.

BTW, just refer to me as Robo Siber, heres an X-ray of two weeks ago..

Image

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Last edited by SiberD on Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:31 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

Come back to it when you are not stoned and if enough of your brain cells survive. It is a waste of my time otherwise.



Ha! You're a waste of my time when you're stone cold sober!

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:56 am 
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BTW, I realize how I have gotten off topic here so this is my last post in this thread.....unless provoked of course [-X

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:09 pm 
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The wife's now on her second, extended bout with fentanyl and oxycodone for endometriosis-related pain. This time around, they just did a full hysterectomy to be sure. She's weaning off now, down from 50 microgram patches to 25's, soon to be 12.5's. I'll never forget her first go-round. Were up to 100's and on the verge of getting morphine pump. Fortunately, we were able to avoid it.

As far as suicide goes, we've endured countless ideations and a couple of full-blown attempts along the journey. Having to care for someone in that much pain is grueling. I couldn't imagine what it must have been like for her. I liken it to kidney stone pain, several of which I've had, only with constant symptoms, day in, day out. There are certain conditions under which I simply would not live. That's one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
The wife's now on her second, extended bout with fentanyl and oxycodone for endometriosis-related pain. This time around, they just did a full hysterectomy to be sure. She's weaning off now, down from 50 microgram patches to 25's, soon to be 12.5's. I'll never forget her first go-round. Were up to 100's and on the verge of getting morphine pump. Fortunately, we were able to avoid it.

As far as suicide goes, we've endured countless ideations and a couple of full-blown attempts along the journey. Having to care for someone in that much pain is grueling. I couldn't imagine what it must have been like for her. I liken it to kidney stone pain, several of which I've had, only with constant symptoms, day in, day out. There are certain conditions under which I simply would not live. That's one of them.



Oh, yeah, endometriosis is bad stuff and am glad that she's has the light at the end of the tunnel now.

My wife has passed a couple of kidney stones at the hospital and claimed it was worse than giving birth.....I couldn't quite relate to that :-)

I am certainly not a level of pain that suicide would enter my mind. Just enough to know its there...all the time. Makes it hard to concentrate.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:16 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
Oh, yeah, endometriosis is bad stuff and am glad that she's has the light at the end of the tunnel now.


Thanks.

Quote:
My wife has passed a couple of kidney stones at the hospital and claimed it was worse than giving birth.....I couldn't quite relate to that :-)


Yep. A lady here at work has had kidney stones and given birth, both more than once. Says if given the choice, she'd pick birth, hands down, over kidney stones.

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I am certainly not a level of pain that suicide would enter my mind. Just enough to know its there...all the time. Makes it hard to concentrate.


That and the fact that you're transitioning to lower dosages and less intense medication is a good thing, as you well know. Sounds like you have a good physician. I don't have experience with gabapentin as compared to valium, but you may actually get better results with tramadol over vicodin. I've noticed that its pain alleviating effects, while not as strong, tend to linger around significantly longer than those of hydro/oxycodone. Again, this is speaking from being around one being treated. Only thing I've had is 10mg oxycodone for stones and it was only good for about 45 minutes per pop. Had to step up to dilaudid.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:12 pm 
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That and the fact that you're transitioning to lower dosages and less intense medication is a good thing, as you well know. Sounds like you have a good physician. I don't have experience with gabapentin as compared to valium, but you may actually get better results with tramadol over vicodin. I've noticed that its pain alleviating effects, while not as strong, tend to linger around significantly longer than those of hydro/oxycodone. Again, this is speaking from being around one being treated. Only thing I've had is 10mg oxycodone for stones and it was only good for about 45 minutes per pop. Had to step up to dilaudid.


So far I have not found the tramadol to be as effective as Vicodin. It takes at least an hour, if not more, to take affect and the dosage,(100mg) is supposed to be in 6 hour intervals. It lasts for five, at best. The gabapentin is a medication used for epilepsy and people with shingles. It has to build up in the body and I've only been on it a week and a half so the effectiveness of that remains to be seen.

Being in a prone position, or reclining provides relief. I can get a great nights sleep, wake up and be in minimal pain. As the day goes on, with me walking or standing upright, or even sitting in a chair in the upright position, the pain gets worse as the day goes on. Currently I work for 5 to 6 hours per day, go home and spend most of the rest of the day in my recliner....with Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown, and my laptop propped on my knees ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:14 pm 
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But, getting back to suicide, I cannot fathom what my nephew, who found his Mom, has and is, going through.

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 Post subject: Re: On suicide.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:58 am 
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SiberD wrote:
Being in a prone position, or reclining provides relief. I can get a great nights sleep, wake up and be in minimal pain. As the day goes on, with me walking or standing upright, or even sitting in a chair in the upright position, the pain gets worse as the day goes on.


Mild traction, maybe? Friend of mine that underwent neck surgery used to put her head in a sling every so often to relieve pressure off her neck bones and the cushions in between them.

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