EnviroLink Forum

Community • Ecology • Connection
It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:13 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:20 am 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:29 pm
Posts: 85
For now there is this social control and reluctance to change on the part of conservatives. But to hear that there is a movement going on amongst conservatives to change, it inspires me. This kind of thing takes time and its not fast enough.


Evangelicals and Climate Change: Global Warming Activists (Pt. 2)


http://www.christianpost.com/news/evang ... t-2-75939/

By Napp Nazworth , Christian Post Reporter
June 20, 2012|7:10 am
Editor's note: In part two of our series on global warming, CP reports on the internal process of a prominent evangelical organization, the National Association of Evangelicals, to reach a climate change position at the urging of evangelical activists.
For evangelicals who are global warming activists, convincing the Christian community to get engaged has been a process.

For example, Richard Cizik, though he was cited in 2008 by Time Magazine as one of the top 100 most influential people in the world for his work as a 'green evangelical,' had a very tough time convincing his organization to back him at the time.

Cizik was formerly vice president for governmental affairs at the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE). While there, he helped craft the Evangelical Climate Initiative (ECI), which was discussed in part one of this series.

Though Cizik helped initiate and advance the ECI, he was asked not to sign the statement at the time it was first published. Several evangelical leaders, including the late Chuck Colson, convinced NAE that the statement did not represent the views of evangelicals well, due to the significant divisions among evangelicals on the topic. Since NAE represents a broad spectrum of evangelicals in the United States, they reasoned, it should not take a position on the controversy. (NAE's current president, Leith Anderson, signed the document, but he was not president at that time.)

Cizik criticized the NAE for not taking a strong enough stance on climate change.

Follow us

"The [NAE] should come out and forcefully indicate that evangelical leaders ... because we do know what the effects of global climate change are, ... assume our rightful role in guiding the movement," he said.

The NAE has taken more steps on climate change since Cizik left. Last December, NAE published a document, "Loving the Least of These," that seeks to help Christians understand how to address the issue of climate change. It focuses particular attention on how climate change might harm the poor and vulnerable.

In a May 24 interview with The Christian Post, Galen Carey, vice president of governmental relations for NAE, described the document as a discussion paper.

"We need to give people information and perspective, but we don't tell them what to think. That's not really an effective strategy for engagement. Rather, one needs to help people think biblically about the issues as well as engaging with the science. They can come to their conclusions," Carey said.

In an email to The Christian Post, Cizik said he applauds "Loving the Least of These," but hopes that NAE will take it a step further and come out with an official document or position statement on climate change.

"Thus, I will gently prod and hold Evangelical leaders to a higher standard. Are we as a movement unwilling to pass judgment on issues such as religious freedom which come before the legislative or executive branches? Of course not. Nor should we punt on climate action," Cizik wrote.

Cizik, now president of The New Evangelical Partnership for the Common Good, holds master's degrees in both divinity and public affairs. He believes that if evangelicals do not take action to reduce global warming, the public image of the movement will suffer, much in the same way it suffered for not getting involved in the Civil Rights Movement.

"The moral principles that [evangelical] organizations live by will shape the movement as a whole and shape this country. It's really important," Cizik said.

He believes that global warming skeptics do not accept the realities of climate change because it threatens their worldview and they have an "illusion of the mind."

"They're reluctant to change due to the accompanying fear, or their current comfort level with their status quo position. And, it's either an active choice or its a passive choice. Either way it's a choice," Cizik claimed.

The good news, he said, is that energy consumption can be quickly reduced without diminishing quality of life through energy efficiency.

"The Lawrence Livermore Labs found that 58 percent of all energy produced in the U.S. is wasted, including over 65 percent of the energy produced for electricity, and over 75 percent of the energy produced for transportation. ... What various analysts ... have found is that energy consumption in the United States could be reduced from seven to 28 percent by 2030 through changes in behavior and the use of existing and emerging technology with no real change in lifestyle. Isn't that amazing?"

"We can do this," Cizik said,"and we have a moral duty."

To better understand the global warming skeptics position, The Christian Post spoke with Dr. E. Calvin Beisner, founder and national spokesperson for Cornwall Alliance, for the third installment of this series on evangelicals and climate change.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:32 am 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:29 pm
Posts: 85
http://trillionthtonne.org/

The trillionth ton is related to the 2*C world goal. This site shows how fast we will have to move on reductions based how much we put in the air as a world society. The important part is where does the world decrease rather than increase and to stay within the trillionth ton, how fast that decrease will need to be.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:41 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5776
Location: USA
For what it's worth, I lean conservative and accept that our climate is changing. I even blame humans to a large extent. I am faithful, but not evangelical. You can say that I am one with the force, I suppose. I have no faith in man. We will not change, not enough anyway, whether we accept that the climate is or isn't changing. Oblivion is our destiny. I embrace it. If it doesn't kill us, it will only make us stronger.

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:37 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2236
Location: Central Colorado
I am an "Involved Deist". That 2*C group doesn't seem to realize that is past the tipping point of tundra methane self release (and that leads to ocean warming enough for self release of all the methane hydrate there). Humans are indeed most to blame, and I also have little faith in humanity to stop the processes leading to mid century population crash followed a thousand years later by thermageddon ELE. I think, as a well educated man, humanity's chance at not going extinct and making it through the 200K year bottleneck is a small portion of 1%. I am still an AGW and overpopulation activist, and walk the talk, with a little hope that maybe things will change for the better and humans will "see the light" and become sustainable.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:01 pm 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:29 pm
Posts: 85
Fosgate wrote:
For what it's worth, I lean conservative and accept that our climate is changing. I even blame humans to a large extent. I am faithful, but not evangelical. You can say that I am one with the force, I suppose. I have no faith in man. We will not change, not enough anyway, whether we accept that the climate is or isn't changing. Oblivion is our destiny. I embrace it. If it doesn't kill us, it will only make us stronger.

RIght now to me, a conservative that embraces climate change is one of the more valuable things there are to me. Good to hear it. It inspires me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:03 pm 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:29 pm
Posts: 85
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I am an "Involved Deist". That 2*C group doesn't seem to realize that is past the tipping point of tundra methane self release (and that leads to ocean warming enough for self release of all the methane hydrate there). Humans are indeed most to blame, and I also have little faith in humanity to stop the processes leading to mid century population crash followed a thousand years later by thermageddon ELE. I think, as a well educated man, humanity's chance at not going extinct and making it through the 200K year bottleneck is a small portion of 1%. I am still an AGW and overpopulation activist, and walk the talk, with a little hope that maybe things will change for the better and humans will "see the light" and become sustainable.


Admittedly I'm a little frustrated with the strangle hold fossil fuels has on our society. Here's the hope thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:12 am 
Offline
Member with 50 posts!
Member with 50 posts!

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:43 am
Posts: 151
Well at least it will make the Christians a lot more scientifically and world awair.

If nothing else that should make the belief in God a lot harder to maintain.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:40 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5776
Location: USA
Tim the Plumber wrote:
Well at least it will make the Christians a lot more scientifically and world awair.

If nothing else that should make the belief in God a lot harder to maintain.


As opposed to belief in anything else?

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:39 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1326
[quote="Johhny Electriglide"]I am an "Involved Deist".

But this means nothing to nobody. When you say that you are an "Involved Deist', are you supposing that we know what you mean? I have no idea ..... and I might guess that others also do not get the meaning either. What is it? What is an "Involved Deist"?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:09 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1326
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I am an "Involved Deist". Humans are indeed most to blame, and I also have little faith in humanity to stop the processes leading to mid century population crash followed a thousand years later by thermageddon ELE. I think, as a well educated man, humanity's chance at not going extinct and making it through the 200K year bottleneck is a small portion of 1%. I am still an AGW and overpopulation activist, and walk the talk, with a little hope that maybe things will change for the better and humans will "see the light" and become sustainable.


Being or not being an "Involved Deist" will not do it. Nor will any religion or political ideology. Placing yourself within a group ..... whether that be religious ideology or nationalistic ideology .... will never create a solution of any kind. In fact, it IS the problem.

By being an "Involved Deist", you are separating yourself from everyone else, just as the Baptists do and just as the Catholics do and just as the Jews do and just as the Muslims do. And that is ONLY religion. Now think about nationality and how we define and caterogize ourselves as one nationality or another.

All of it is bull-shit! If we are to see the light then we must see that we are intimately inter-connected. We are NOT religions and we are definitely NOT nationalities. Ultimately we are all in this together, regardless of belief structures.

We set ourselvers apart from one another in the name of religion/belief and in the name of nationality ....... while all of it has been conjured and thought up. None of it is real.

Do you see this?

/ ...... where do we see our boundaries when we look from space? We are really one planet. The divisions are simply thought up. So do not specify or caterogize yourself as either one or another. At least let that go. Can you? It may be a starting point!

At least we can realize that we are here together and that nationalities are a made up concept? While we have different beliefs .... is it God or is it Alllah .... none of it is true.

And if you want clarification, ask.
.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:18 am 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20468
Location: Southeastern US
animal-friendly wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I am an "Involved Deist".

But this means nothing to nobody. When you say that you are an "Involved Deist', are you supposing that we know what you mean? I have no idea ..... and I might guess that others also do not get the meaning either. What is it? What is an "Involved Deist"?


You can also look to see. There are many religions and most do not explain their beif in such a post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

http://moderndeism.com/html/faq_s.html

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:07 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:27 am
Posts: 5776
Location: USA
animal-friendly wrote:
All of it is bull-shit! If we are to see the light then we must see that we are intimately inter-connected. We are NOT religions and we are definitely NOT nationalities.


That's cool. Next time I'm on a sinking ship, I'll just prevent it by protesting the notion that it's even a ship.

_________________
TANG SOO!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:43 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Even the most hard-core atheist has to recognize the power of beliefs to affect changes in society. If you want to change the world, get religions on your side.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:45 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2236
Location: Central Colorado
animal-friendly wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I am an "Involved Deist".

But this means nothing to nobody. When you say that you are an "Involved Deist', are you supposing that we know what you mean? I have no idea ..... and I might guess that others also do not get the meaning either. What is it? What is an "Involved Deist"?

Most Deists don't think God would come into their lives for their betterment if asked. Those of us in Alcoholics Anonymous know He will. I would suggest going to an open meeting of AA.
Much of it can be translated also to environmentalism and humanity itself, like this section of chapter 5: "Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point."
Wayne's links are very good.
Think of the turning points humanity is at with mitigating future disasters from overpopulation and CAGW. Numerous documentaries like "Blind Spot" show that humans are hooked on things that are bad in the long run, like fossil fuels, excessive sex or procreation, foods without composting to replenish the soils, aquifer water without regard to recharge rate, and basically using the oceans as sewers and dumps. Think of the half measures or less going on in Rio right now.
You want a world without religions or borders, like the Star Trek fantasy. This is while there is enough difference in humanity itself to warrant speciation, biologically. People are not the same, whether it is religions, nations, languages, or intelligence. It is hard enough to have a family reunion without arguments, let alone a worldwide "kumbaya".
It would be nice if everyone had the religion of trying to do God's Will every day: to live in sustainable harmony with understanding of nature and the laws of nature. The sad fact is that they don't, and probably will not. Cryogenics is not advanced enough for a group large enough to prevent genetic erosion and smart (and moral) enough to wake up in 200K years and re-establish humanity in a sustainable manner. The words of the Ute Rule of Life should have been taken up in every holy book and government entity, every school and home, but they were not. The Genesis "Replenish the Earth" was not taken seriously, either.
Instead we have "sustainable development" preached to an over developed world, and unsustainable humanity. We stood at the turning point......and pissed away the time in which universal education and free contraception would have worked to stop the population crash, and are within 7 1/2 years of pissing away the time needed to reduce fossil fuel burning 90% and change to a steady state economy. The mass of humanity was born that way, incapable of rigorous honesty, or foreseeing seven generations ahead the consequences of their actions, and unable to give back the equivalent of what they had taken from this Earth.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:56 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:09 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
animal-friendly wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I am an "Involved Deist".

But this means nothing to nobody. When you say that you are an "Involved Deist', are you supposing that we know what you mean? I have no idea ..... and I might guess that others also do not get the meaning either. What is it? What is an "Involved Deist"?
I am in the same loose grouping of beliefs termed "Involved Deist". I have witnessed many supernatural events... things that defy the known physics and logic without the involvement of an intelligent being or force that can defy the rules of science. At the same time, the science involved with biology and genetics has a lot of math and statistics pointing to a different history then found in the first two chapters of the Bible. From a nuclear physicist standpoint, the "big bang" theory is very flawed but the best we can come up with if you reject a creator force bringing matter into existence. One atheist argument is the "lazy god" argument: if God is eternal and all-powerful, then why did God wait until now to create the universe? I find this argument silly but very informative of what I believe: for me, God can be the laziest god possible and just waited for matter to come into existence and waited for an earth-like planet to happen and waited for evolution to create life as we know it... still does not explain the supernatural. So, as a Deist, the very existence of matter and time proves a creator but how and when and even if God actually created life is not a relevant issue in the existence of God. The miracles and communication with such a supernatural (and inconsistent) being makes God to be a being rather then a force and thus involved. I cannot speak for Johhny Electriglide of course but that is my reason for being an "involved deist."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group