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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
When you reach a certain stage in your spiritual evolution and you recognise the unity of all life, you're no more inclined to want to eat animal flesh anymore than you would human flesh!


And when one reaches yet another stage of spiritual development, or they just plain come to their senses, they realize that it is moreso "how much" of something rather than "what" they eat.


'Alas, because of lack of spiritual development, there are millions of people on earth who do not realise that the spirit which animates them is the same one that animates all creatures who share the planet with them. They do not see them as spirits with earthly bodies, just as they are'
- Silver Birch

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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Tim the Plumber wrote:
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Meat-eating only came in after the cataclysmic flood and when it did it had a catastrophic effect on human health and lifespan.


1) WHAT????

What flood? Are you suggesting that Naoh's flood actually happened? Were you home schooled?

2) The earth has never flooded over it's whole surface. There is no evidence of it and there would be vast un-mistakable wreckage left behind by such an event. Have you ever done any physical geography or geology?


1) Like so much of the Bible, the story of Noah, contains an element of truth embroidered with fable.

2) On the contrary, numerous cataclysmic events have befallen the earth through the Ages and whole civilisations (Atlantis, Lemuria/Mu, Minoa and others) have been destroyed as a consequence.

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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
The idea that humans were not evolved as omnivores is a garbage theory of some vegetarians. Humans have eaten meat for as long as they have existed, 7 million years for proto humans and 100,000 years for more modern humans. Some tribes had the majority of their diets in meat while others it was a majority of nuts, grains, fruits, and vegetables. Some had better nutrition than others, and with it better disease resistance and health. The mono diet tribes tended toward lower development and health problems, vitamin and or mineral deficiencies.


In this particular instance, I was refering to the Adamic Root Race, from the Judaeo-Christian perspective I was discussing with Ann Vole. The Israelites of the Biblical era did not eat flesh food up until the cataclysmic flood described (in part truth, part fable) in the story of Noah

Man has always eaten meat? No, 'he' hasn't. The plant-based diet is the natural and intended diet for mankind.

This gentleman wrote a very interesting piece on the issue
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

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http://holy-lance.blogspot.com


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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:49 pm 
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knightofalbion wrote:
Man has always eaten meat? No, 'he' hasn't. The plant-based diet is the natural and intended diet for mankind.


No, it is not the natural diet. Our physiology allows us to consume and derive sustenance from both plant and animal. As for what was intended, I'll leave that to argument involving opinion.

Humans are Omnivores, Adapted from a talk by John McArdle, Ph.D.
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:
Johhny Electriglide wrote:
The flooding from the rock dam break at the Bosporus(NOT Gibraltar) and filling of the Black Sea rapidly...
Ah I should be more specific. The Mediterranean was flooded much earlier (and submerging even older cities then the 10K years) but the fill was through a river when the ocean was lower and the gap in Gibraltar was narrow at that lower point. My point in referring to this was the comment that we should have seen the massive destruction of a flood but history shows that fast floods leave cities intact but slow level rise such as the 200 m seen in Australia area will destroy all evidence of cultures along the shore. I was not intending to suggest the Mediterranean flooding in particular was the Biblical flood event (happened much earlier... although the level did rise a lot and changed the location of cities in the process... still happened over centuries or decades rather then weeks (like the Black Sea flooding event)

"In 1920, H. G. Wells published a popular history book in which it was suspected that the Mediterranean basin had in the past been cut off from the Atlantic. One piece of physical evidence, a deep channel past Gibraltar, had been noticed. Wells estimated that the basin had refilled roughly between 30,000 and 10,000 B.C.[40] The theory he printed was that:[40]
In the last Ice Age, so much ocean water was taken into the icecaps that world ocean level dropped[citation needed] below the sill in the Strait of Gibraltar.
Without the inflow from the Atlantic the Mediterranean would evaporate much more water than it receives, and would evaporate down to two large lakes, one on the Balearic Abyssal Plain, the other further east.
The east lake would receive most of the incoming river water, and may have overflowed into the west lake.
All or some of this seabed may have had a human population, where it was watered from the incoming rivers.
There is a long deep submerged valley running from the Mediterranean out into the Atlantic.
(Modern research, however, has shown that Wells' theory is incorrect. All the geological and plant-fossil evidence shows that the Mediterranean did not dry out during the last ice age. Sea levels were 120m lower than today, resulting in a shallower Strait of Gibraltar and a reduced water exchange with the Atlantic, but there was no cut-off.[41])"
The water at the Strait of Gibraltar is 900M deep now, so at minimum 780m deep during the previous glacial epoch. Shore settlements were inundated at the same rate as in SE Asia/Australia and Japan, North and South America, Europe, etc. Generally, and dependent on local topography and seismology/vulcanism. Fast flooding often is more destructive, as in flash floods.
See here about the "special conditions" of the Black Sea, anoxic:
http://disc.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/education ... ones.shtml

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Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
knightofalbion wrote:
Man has always eaten meat? No, 'he' hasn't. The plant-based diet is the natural and intended diet for mankind.


No, it is not the natural diet. Our physiology allows us to consume and derive sustenance from both plant and animal. As for what was intended, I'll leave that to argument involving opinion.

Humans are Omnivores, Adapted from a talk by John McArdle, Ph.D.
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

Great link, Fosgate, which agrees with what I said previously:
"The idea that humans were not evolved as omnivores is a garbage theory of some vegetarians. Humans have eaten meat for as long as they have existed, 7 million years for proto humans and 100,000 years for more modern humans. Some tribes had the majority of their diets in meat while others it was a majority of nuts, grains, fruits, and vegetables. Some had better nutrition than others, and with it better disease resistance and health. The mono diet tribes tended toward lower development and health problems, vitamin and or mineral deficiencies."
Also, cannibalism is still often practiced to this day by some remote tribes, some cultures, and in desperate survival situations.

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“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”
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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Shore settlements were inundated at the same rate as in SE Asia/Australia and Japan, North and South America, Europe, etc. Generally, and dependent on local topography and seismology/vulcanism. Fast flooding often is more destructive, as in flash floods.
See here about the "special conditions" of the Black Sea, anoxic:
http://disc.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/education ... ones.shtml
Again to be more specific, I am referring to remains of ancient buildings that would have to be made of rock to survive being submerged but not buried (being buried or being in anoxic water would preserve organic building materials like wood). "Fast flooding" is also not very specific... obviously tsunamis and similar storm flooding is highly destructive even for rock structures but what I am referring to is where the ocean waves and storms are only pounding at a structure for weeks, months, or even a year or two before the building is submerged lower then the wave turbulence. Being a smaller yet deep body of water, the Mediterranean Sea has less violent tsunamis when they do occur compared to the oceans of the world and hurricanes will not form either so the slightly submerged rock ruins are spared some of the destructive power that erases all traces of humans. Easter island and it's stone statues shows the destructive power of oceans as they try to save as many of the statues as possible while the ocean eats away at the island in places.

ps this is the article I looked at before making the previous comment Johhny commented on http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8404363.stm


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 Post subject: Re: Animal Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:59 pm 
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I understand about rock structures and wave action erosion. If they could get deep enough fast enough and out of fast currents. This is usually from a rapid seismic event, and most often breaks up the large rock structures to a certain extent. Underwater archeology is finding more of them such as at Thera (or Santorini), and the remains of some of Alexandria. Burial by fine sediment eventually gets most. The ones found, even in the Black Sea anoxic area, are interglacial epoch structures(some use stone). The oldest I have heard of are buried in sand in SE Egypt at about 9K years old. The Santorini explosion that destroyed the Minoan (Atlantean) Civilization had a 400' tsunami that hit Crete. There were many other large Mediterranean tsunamis previous to that from there and numerous other volcanoes in the region. Perhaps some were witnessed there by humanoids or humans prior to civilization. Some Mediterranean storms are nothing to sneeze at either, even though not hurricanes, they wrecked many ships of great size.
Very little except conjecture on people living in a civilization using large rock construction(even if just foundations) during the glacial epoch 11K+ YBP, either on the previous shore or on land. I do know there are searches underway using the latest in sonar and other equipment. Mostly turning up old shipwrecks. There is conjecture the steps off Japan were made well over 10K YBP for possibly religious type reasons like the Mayan step pyramids. Then some think they are from a seismic origin and just look man made.
The fast fill of the Mediterranean Depression ~5 million years ago was when there were only proto humans well south. Even before that, it was open ocean between Africa and Europe and before that was Pangaea.
The continental movement after Pangaea had a great deal to do with animal evolution.

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