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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:19 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
jettrout wrote:
I 2nd that Iowanic.

Thank you to my son, my nephews, my past uncles, my father, grandfather, and all the other men and women who serve and have served and a special thanks to those soldiers and their families who lost their lives for us.
There is no greater selfless sacrifice.


Such a story. Epic.
Lives lost to a story.
Tragic indeed.
They lost their precious and beautiful lives for a chapter in some history text.
Tragic indeed.

To be selfless is an entirely different story.

Sons, nephews, uncles , fathers, and nowadays ... women .... (neices, aunts, mothers, grandmothers ...) only lost their lives because they lost their beautiful lives and nothing more or less.

Adds fodder to parades.

Senseless.

Selfless? Only if one sucuumbs to folly.

I know I will hear it now ..... the drums and the flag waving. There will be logic...

But when we send our kids to church on Sundays and then to war on Mondays ... and we insist that we LOVE our children? Did we have them as fodder? Are we a soldier making farm? And then we thank them for their "selfless" service? Really? Is that why we had them?


But, but, but.....its for the good of the Empire!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:25 am 
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Thank god there are those who will risk their lives so that other's have the right to question their service.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:18 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Thank god there are those who will risk their lives so that other's have the right to question their service.


I don't questionm their service. I question the government that is in charge of putting them in harms way. A government that thinks it has a right to nation build in order to protect oil supplies. A government that spends three times the amount of money in defense than does number two, China. A government that has 1,000 military installations outside of the continental United States. I question a government that thinks it has a right to kill innocent people of other nations and call it "collateral damage". A government that lies to its people in order to whip up patriotism and go to war against a country that really poses no threat to us. A government that is slowly eroding the freedoms and rights we used to have. Did you know that the government now has the right to detain a US citizen without charging them with a crime? I question a gov't that gropes old women and children before allowing them on a plane. Do you think the government should have the right to kill a US citizen without due process of law?

Maybe you should question your government more rather than blindly waving a flag and believing they have your best interest at heart.


Oh and that freedom of speech you talk about. How about this guy's right to speak?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57496980/ex-marine-put-in-psych-ward-over-facebook-posts/

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:36 am 
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SiberD wrote:
Maybe you should question your government more rather than blindly waving a flag and believing they have your best interest at heart.


It's a representative government. A sufficient number of morons can wreak havoc with that.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:46 am 
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Fosgate wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Maybe you should question your government more rather than blindly waving a flag and believing they have your best interest at heart.


It's a representative government. A sufficient number of morons can wreak havoc with that.


And they represent the banks, big pharma and medical industry, oil, and the military industrial complex....not you or me. We don't have an election coming up in November, we have a national auction with some of the best politicians we have going to the highest bidder :-)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:26 am 
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SiberD wrote:
Iowanic wrote:
Thank god there are those who will risk their lives so that other's have the right to question their service.


I don't questionm their service. I question the government that is in charge of putting them in harms way. A government that thinks it has a right to nation build in order to protect oil supplies. A government that spends three times the amount of money in defense than does number two, China. A government that has 1,000 military installations outside of the continental United States. I question a government that thinks it has a right to kill innocent people of other nations and call it "collateral damage". A government that lies to its people in order to whip up patriotism and go to war against a country that really poses no threat to us. A government that is slowly eroding the freedoms and rights we used to have. Did you know that the government now has the right to detain a US citizen without charging them with a crime? I question a gov't that gropes old women and children before allowing them on a plane. Do you think the government should have the right to kill a US citizen without due process of law?

Maybe you should question your government more rather than blindly waving a flag and believing they have your best interest at heart.


Oh and that freedom of speech you talk about. How about this guy's right to speak?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57496980/ex-marine-put-in-psych-ward-over-facebook-posts/


From the link:

Col. Thierry Dupuis, the county police chief, said Raub was taken into custody upon the recommendation of mental health crisis intervention workers. He said the action was taken under the state's emergency custody statute, which allows a magistrate to order the civil detention and psychiatric evaluation of a person who is considered potentially dangerous.


He said Raub was handcuffed because he resisted officers' attempts to take him into custody.


His right to speak was not infringed, but what he had to say created concerns regarding his mental health and his safety to himself and others, which is being investigated. Just like the similar concerns over the shooter in Colorado should have been investigated more closely due to mental health worker's concerns.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:48 am 
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SiberD wrote:
I don't questionm their service. I question the government that is in charge of putting them in harms way. A government that thinks it has a right to nation build in order to protect oil supplies.


I can agree with that, although many might not as energy is the life blood of the current economy.

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A government that spends three times the amount of money in defense than does number two, China.


I agree with that and one of the points the GOP strongly favors is increased military spending.

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A government that has 1,000 military installations outside of the continental United States.


I can understand the need for many of these.

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I question a government that thinks it has a right to kill innocent people of other nations and call it "collateral damage".


The nature of conflict is that innocents will be harmed, always has and probably always will

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A government that lies to its people in order to whip up patriotism and go to war against a country that really poses no threat to us.


I can agree with this. If there is a real threat let it be known.

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A government that is slowly eroding the freedoms and rights we used to have.


Too open. We used to have the freedom and right to own other human beings.

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Did you know that the government now has the right to detain a US citizen without charging them with a crime?


I believe the context is important in this discussion.

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I question a gov't that gropes old women and children before allowing them on a plane.


Do you have a better way to deal with terrorist threats? They were checking everyone the last time I flew and they went through my bags closely. The discussion on what they had found was interesteing and eye-opening.

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Do you think the government should have the right to kill a US citizen without due process of law?


In the context of the situation to which this relates, yes. A citizen is not afforded ultimate protection due to that label.

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Maybe you should question your government more rather than blindly waving a flag and believing they have your best interest at heart.


I do, I just do not blindly disbelieve either.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Iowanic wrote:
Thank god there are those who will risk their lives so that other's have the right to question their service.


I don't questionm their service. I question the government that is in charge of putting them in harms way. A government that thinks it has a right to nation build in order to protect oil supplies. A government that spends three times the amount of money in defense than does number two, China. A government that has 1,000 military installations outside of the continental United States. I question a government that thinks it has a right to kill innocent people of other nations and call it "collateral damage". A government that lies to its people in order to whip up patriotism and go to war against a country that really poses no threat to us. A government that is slowly eroding the freedoms and rights we used to have. Did you know that the government now has the right to detain a US citizen without charging them with a crime? I question a gov't that gropes old women and children before allowing them on a plane. Do you think the government should have the right to kill a US citizen without due process of law?

Maybe you should question your government more rather than blindly waving a flag and believing they have your best interest at heart.


Oh and that freedom of speech you talk about. How about this guy's right to speak?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57496980/ex-marine-put-in-psych-ward-over-facebook-posts/


From the link:

Col. Thierry Dupuis, the county police chief, said Raub was taken into custody upon the recommendation of mental health crisis intervention workers. He said the action was taken under the state's emergency custody statute, which allows a magistrate to order the civil detention and psychiatric evaluation of a person who is considered potentially dangerous.


He said Raub was handcuffed because he resisted officers' attempts to take him into custody.


His right to speak was not infringed, but what he had to say created concerns regarding his mental health and his safety to himself and others, which is being investigated. Just like the similar concerns over the shooter in Colorado should have been investigated more closely due to mental health worker's concerns.


I cannot say that I wouldn't resist arrest if I had officers trying to take me into custody over something I had written on a Facebook page. One of the things he said, that caused great concern, is "Sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads." Did you know those weren't his words, but lyrics from a song. Why haven't the band members been evaluated?

But, go ahead and blindly believe what the media tells you. :-)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:26 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Oh and that freedom of speech you talk about. How about this guy's right to speak?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57496980/ex-marine-put-in-psych-ward-over-facebook-posts/


From the link:

Col. Thierry Dupuis, the county police chief, said Raub was taken into custody upon the recommendation of mental health crisis intervention workers. He said the action was taken under the state's emergency custody statute, which allows a magistrate to order the civil detention and psychiatric evaluation of a person who is considered potentially dangerous.


He said Raub was handcuffed because he resisted officers' attempts to take him into custody.


His right to speak was not infringed, but what he had to say created concerns regarding his mental health and his safety to himself and others, which is being investigated. Just like the similar concerns over the shooter in Colorado should have been investigated more closely due to mental health worker's concerns.


I cannot say that I wouldn't resist arrest if I had officers trying to take me into custody over something I had written on a Facebook page. One of the things he said, that caused great concern, is "Sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads." Did you know those weren't his words, but lyrics from a song. Why haven't the band members been evaluated?

But, go ahead and blindly believe what the media tells you. :-)


You should be treated the same way if you resist, which would be restrained to prevent injury to yourself or the officers.

What do you actually know of the evaluation other than presented in the media? One of the things is an out of context quote from a song, but not the only thing.

Should I disbelieve the media report for a reason other than a possible conspiracy theory situation or for some documented reason connected to this case?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:56 pm 
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I would at least like to be able to face my accusers. And I know nothing about the situation than what is presented in the media and I take the media with a big grain of salt. Don't you think his family would like for him to get help if he needed it? But they're saying he was taken away to a mental ward without their knowledge, do not believe he should be there, and have hired an attorney to get him freed.

I found this part to be rather interesting too....

The big concern, Whitehead(his attorney) said, is whether government officials are monitoring citizens' private Facebook pages and detaining people with whom they disagree.

Dee Rybiski, an FBI spokeswoman in Richmond, said there was no Facebook snooping by her agency.

"We received quite a few complaints about what were perceived as threatening posts," she said. "Given the circumstances with the things that have gone on in the country with some of these mass shootings, it would be horrible for law enforcement not to pay attention to complaints."

Whitehead said some of the posts in question were made on a closed Facebook page that Raub had recently created so he questioned whether anyone from the public would have complained about them.


Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder who his accusers could be?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:03 pm 
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And don't you think a person who is deemed a danger to himself, or the public, has a right to representation and a hearing BEFORE being handcuffed and whisked to a mental facility for observation?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Should I disbelieve the media report for a reason other than a possible conspiracy theory situation or for some documented reason connected to this case?


Now that he's been freed, do you believe the authorities funked up? I say get to the bottom of the matter and ensure that crap like this doesn't happen again.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:02 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
And don't you think a person who is deemed a danger to himself, or the public, has a right to representation and a hearing BEFORE being handcuffed and whisked to a mental facility for observation?


Right to a hearing to see if he is in need of a mental health evaluation? Just how does that work in real life since there would have to be a mental evaluation to determine if he is competent to be tried? Ask him to come in and to not hurt himself or anyone else in the process?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
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Should I disbelieve the media report for a reason other than a possible conspiracy theory situation or for some documented reason connected to this case?


Now that he's been freed, do you believe the authorities funked up? I say get to the bottom of the matter and ensure that crap like this doesn't happen again.


The totality of his posts sound like some of the folks who have done harm to innocent people and he seemed to be coming to a point of action.

Some of the posts he made (some edited for obvious reasons):


December 24, 2011: F*** the New World Order. I'm bringing it down.

July 10: America my country, rise. Land of warriors. Rise and take your glory back.

July 24: I feel like I am standing at a great crossroads. As if a storm of destiny is about to pick me up and take me to fight a great battle. A battle I could have never imagined existed.

July 28: If you are my friend, you deserve to know the truth. This world is secretly run by a shadow organization of people who among other things enjoy raping children. Some of the leaders were involved with the bombing of the twin towers. It was a sacrifice and a complete inside job. Also the Bush's are very sick twisted problems. I believe they have a secret Castle in Colorado where they have been raping and sacrificing children for many years. Think I'm crazy? Think again.

July 29: Fortune favors the bold.

July 29: This is what I'm about to do. (followed by a video of Marines heroically slaying monsters)

July 30: We MUST rise up and take our country back

August 3: Posted a violent shoot 'em up Star Wars video

August 4: I am standing against a great evil. I will do it all by myself if I have to.

August 5: If you are unaware of the great amount of evil perpetrated by the American Government I suggest you take your head out of the sand. The day of reckoning is almost at hand.

August 6: Let's Roll

August 6: I don't care how crazy it looks. Sometimes one man with courage can change the world. And it will be beautiful again.

August 7: "Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it..."

August 7: Do you know that world leaders sacrifice children in robes? (followed by a photo of two men and white robes surrounded by a chorus of other people)

August 9: This is the part where I tell the Federal Government to go F*** itself. This is the part where I tell Generals, training our young men to fight Americans, I am coming for you. The Veterans will be with me.

August 9: The Revolution is Upon Us.

August 10: I'm starting the Revolution. I'm done waiting.

August 10: The time for choosing has come. Will you continue to ignore the obvious lie of 911 or will you stand and fight for your people?

August 10: The time for being willfully blind has ended.

August 11: I know many of you think I'm going crazy, and are wondering just why I have been posting the things I have been posting. I don't have the energy to explain. Just know that a new begining is coming. (followed by a music video - whose lyrics contain, in part: "Your time is up, my time is now; you can't see me, my time is now..."

August 12: You deserve to know the truth. There has been an overwhelming amount of evil enacted and planned against you, your children, and your countrymen. It is great in scope. Your government evil. It is as simple as that. And the calvary is coming.

August 12: This is a picture of the government dropping Barium and Aluminum Powder from the air on American Citizens. (followed by a photo of alleged "chemtrails")

August 12: The people responsible for poisoning the American people from the sky will be held accountable. And there is going to be justice.

August 12: Do you know what the secret of the Marine Corps is? Tell people they are Heroes and they will act it out.

August 12: Do you know why the American people will win the civil war that is coming? Because we are Americans.

August 13: Sharpen up my axe; I'm here to sever heads.

August 13: You should understand that many of the things I have said here are for the world to see.

August 13: There are some men who struggle against destiny. And there are Some who Embrace it.

August 14: The Revolution will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to lead it. ;)

August 15: The Revolution is here. And I will lead it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
Thank god there are those who will risk their lives so that other's have the right to question their service.


It is those who are willing to sacrifice their lives and the lives of their sons and daughters who should be doing the questioning. They have a right.


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