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EnviroLink Forum • View topic - ANDRILL

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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:06 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Last edited by spot1234 on Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Reread;


I could argue details with you but what stands out is that the paper YOU linked concludes with;
"The direct evidence of WAIS stability from the ANDRILL cores
shows that it is highly sensitive to climate warming, so man needs to stabilize the climate
while we still have a little time."


This seems to be at odds with your argument.


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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Not really because we can look at the whole conclusion and then look at why they are finishing with an emotional attachment.

"Incorporating the results from the ANDRILL cores with existing 18O in deep sea cores increases the accuracy of past ice volumes on Antarctica (figure 5).

Image

Figure 5, The first graph (a) shows the stacked deep sea core benthic 18O and the second (b) shows the long term simulation of the total Antarctic ice volume, with the equivalent changes in global sea level. The results of the AND-1B are displayed at the bottom where, green represents grounded ice, blue floating ice shelf and yellow representing openocean. This also represented in the bottom diagram (c) where the same scale is smaller, the grey shading represents periods of super interglacials (Pollard & DeConto, 2009)."

ANDRILL’s core has shown clear evidence that WAIS can collapse rapidly as shown in figure 6.

[Anyone can look at the diagrams of ice extent on the paper as all seperate images and not wasting my time]

Figure 6, The left column represents 1.094 Million years (Myr) ago, middle 1.079 Myr ago and right column is today. a-c, Show the grounded ice elevations and floating ice thicknesses. d-f, surface ice speed. g-i, floating ice thickness and velocity. The black dot is the location of the AND-1B (Pollard & DeConto, 2009).

Results from ANDRILL show that WAIS had collapsed in the past when the temperature is 3°C warmer than today and CO₂ concentrations are 400ppm (Naish et al, 2009). This is most likely going to occur again by the end of the century (IPCC, 2007). Results from incorporating ANDRILL’s data into prediction models show similar collapses of the WAIS and 7 metre increases in sea levels (Pollard & DeConto, 2009). Collapses of the WAIS have been abrupt (~<500 years) in the past, thus could be just as abrupt today, but large uncertainties still remain (Naish et al., 2009). (Where you quoted from as a snippet)The direct evidence of WAIS stability from the ANDRILL cores shows that it is highly sensitive to climate warming, so man needs to stabilize the climate while we still have a little time."


So we have a more accurate determination of the past ice volumes of the WAIS, meaning this will give us a better resolution in the data when determining the temperature at the time. Then we have an intersting statement that the WAIS has collapsed rapidly in the past but the temperature was warmer and it was a natural event. Their own graphs and diagrams show that what we are seeing is not unsual or unprecedented.

Now why would they bring the human influence into a piece of work that does not directly research GHGs (or discuss them in depth from the samples) because it is based on 18O, changes in the composition of sediment layers, diatom species, Magnesium to Calcium and Barium to Aluminium ratios to give the overall picture, especially as the absolute last few words as a psychological hit, you might want to think about that a little bit more.


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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Do you know what a fascist and what a Nazi is Johnny? When you understand you will see why the religious spouting and attack on someone else you give is just that.

Show me where the ANDRILL project has been debunked, anything at all because the IPCC, NOAA and every other organsiation that has an important role in the science of AGW feel it is good enough to use along with the other drilling projects that the work has been combined with for a better resolution, and FYI the graph in the conclusion does show the last 1000 years but as it is such a small overall timescale in the 5 million year graph and the 1.5 million year graph it is not clear, yet even the current slope of ice loss in the 1.5 million year graph does not suddenly change from its steady downward slope that it also shows at the start of every glacial period, and you would expect it to.

As for trying to get hold of the data and studies that show the top 2 metres or so of the sediment is something I am trying to do, as I agree they talk about things yet miss it out of the papers I have read so far and only discuss in detail the date ranges I discussed before.


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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ANDRILL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:49 pm 
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