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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:13 am 
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Ann Vole wrote:
tommee wrote:
More idiotic ranting from wayne =D>
it is obvious you never read a word of Wayne's very scientific and logical response which includes quotes from reputable sources like the dictionary.



And you are the one who posts what? Conservation research? :crazy:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:15 am 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Perhaps you believe "invasive" is the same as vivisection? No, vivisection would be invasive but invasive is not vivisection.

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsid ... an-on.html

A key issue is the definition of "invasive." The bill would explicitly bar any research that "may cause death, bodily injury, pain, distress, fear, injury or trauma."


The issue was defined by the UK government, they banned the practise of using higher primates.

Medical experiments can come in different forms we all know this even vivisection, well for them that are not narrow minded. The ban quoted takes in research including vivisection.

#-o


Yes, the ban includes vivisection, but that does not in any way explain you leap to mention it and claimin git was already mentioned.

The ban did not prevent the use of chimps in other areas of the world to be used in research by UK entities. That is why the clinical trials for the Hep C vaccine in the the UK (paper referenced)relied on the chimps elsewhere as the initial model (paper referenced) for testing.

Thus the "ban" was just to move the research elsewhere and use it once it was available.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:20 am 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Still trying to figure your leap from Alzheimer's research making all medical research the same as vivisection and still failing to see the connection.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/ ... 616&page=1

To test this theory, Rosen and her colleagues took PIB, widely used in clinical trials to diagnose Alzheimer's. PIB binds to amyloid deposits in live human brains, thus "lighting up" the plaques on positron-emission tomography (PET) scans.

They used PIB in brain tissue from nine deceased rhesus monkeys, six deceased squirrel monkeys, three deceased chimpanzees, nine deceased humans with end-stage Alzheimer's and three deceased older but healthy humans.



Who said all research was vivisection? Not I you are just pissing up my back that's all that's going on here.




What did you mean when you berated us for pointing out vivsection was not mentioned?

viewtopic.php?p=184823#p184823

Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
Ann Vole wrote:
Up until this point, vivisection had not entered the discussion.


Yes it was. Although the word vivisection was not used.


No, if the word vivisection was not used it was not part of the discussion as research is not vivisection.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:24 am 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Still trying to figure your leap from Alzheimer's research making all medical research the same as vivisection and still failing to see the connection.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/ ... 616&page=1

To test this theory, Rosen and her colleagues took PIB, widely used in clinical trials to diagnose Alzheimer's. PIB binds to amyloid deposits in live human brains, thus "lighting up" the plaques on positron-emission tomography (PET) scans.

They used PIB in brain tissue from nine deceased rhesus monkeys, six deceased squirrel monkeys, three deceased chimpanzees, nine deceased humans with end-stage Alzheimer's and three deceased older but healthy humans.



Who said all research was vivisection? Not I you are just pissing up my back that's all that's going on here.


I mention research and you go off on vivisection, so either you were incapable of understanding what was being discussed or you were equating research with vivsection. In either case it is your error to fix.

viewtopic.php?p=184771#p184771

Ann Vole wrote:
tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Yes, they are outsourcing that research. :mrgreen:


Assumption.

this website lends a lot of support for that assumption

http://www.psgb.org/


tommee wrote:
Care to point out where? In the UK primates are used in vivisection but not higher primates. If you can provide a test study that was "contracted" out where chimps were used I may revise my opinion.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:25 am 
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tommee wrote:
Ann Vole wrote:
tommee wrote:
More idiotic ranting from wayne =D>
it is obvious you never read a word of Wayne's very scientific and logical response which includes quotes from reputable sources like the dictionary.



And you are the one who posts what? Conservation research? :crazy:


What is wrong with that? It seems better than the unrelated ramblings and quasi-personal attacks you have posted.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:28 am 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

Says what? That vivisection was not mentioned at all? That medical research is not vivisection? What?


It says that Altzimer's disease is research using animals, ie: vivisection same for medical research.

Stop with the idiotic rants.


So you did not mean to say what it seems you were saying?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

Says what? That vivisection was not mentioned at all? That medical research is not vivisection? What?


It says that Altzimer's disease is research using animals, ie: vivisection same for medical research.

Stop with the idiotic rants.


So you did not mean to say what it seems you were saying?


Oh dear what an idiot you really are, typical yank. You think you can spin posts around but I just can't be bothered if you are incapable of following a topic.

I can certainly produce links that support Altzimer's uses vivisection as part of their studies, same for medical research. The ban takes in a whole range of research, all the same vivisection is part and parcel of the ban. If you are too stupid to understand this then there is no hope for you.

So stop with this pathetic line of enquiry.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:43 pm 
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"So he and his colleagues set out to boost HCV-specific T cells using a "recombinant adenoviral vector strategy" in human volunteers. In total, 41 healthy adults took part in the study."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recombinant_DNA

:-

Cherry pick from a study we have no access to all you want.

They didn't use chimps :crazy:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:

Says what? That vivisection was not mentioned at all? That medical research is not vivisection? What?


It says that Altzimer's disease is research using animals, ie: vivisection same for medical research.

Stop with the idiotic rants.


So you did not mean to say what it seems you were saying?


tommee wrote:
Oh dear what an idiot you really are, typical yank. You think you can spin posts around but I just can't be bothered if you are incapable of following a topic.


It seems you are too confused to understand what is going on. You brought up the subject of vivisection out of some attempt to deflect the discussion and then tried to dodge when called on it by the nonsensical post that sounded as if you were connecting the two.

Quote:
I can certainly produce links that support Altzimer's uses vivisection as part of their studies, same for medical research.


That is all well and good but neither ONLY uses vivisection so the connection is nothing to anyone but yourself in you confused state.

Quote:
The ban takes in a whole range of research, all the same vivisection is part and parcel of the ban. If you are too stupid to understand this then there is no hope for you.


I am not so stupid as to be fooled by your poor attempts at defelction. You brought up vivisection, no other poster mentioned it. There was never a question that the ban prevented the use of vivisection in higher primates in the UK except in your addled replies.

Quote:
So stop with this pathetic line of enquiry.


When you stop making pathetic attempts to mislead it will not be necessary to refute them and we all will be happier, I am sure.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:27 pm 
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tommee wrote:
"So he and his colleagues set out to boost HCV-specific T cells using a "recombinant adenoviral vector strategy" in human volunteers. In total, 41 healthy adults took part in the study."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recombinant_DNA

:-

Cherry pick from a study we have no access to all you want.


You have no access to it after I gave the link to the information and you quoted from it?

Quote:
They didn't use chimps :crazy:


No, they did not use chimps, but you seem to be the only person without the sufficient number of brain cells to understand that was never stated. What you fail to comprehend is that clinical study on humans is the stage AFTER the testing on chimps was performed. You know, one of those tests outsourced that you wanted information on? Maybe I should follow your advise I just can't be bothered if you are incapable of following a topic.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:22 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:
"So he and his colleagues set out to boost HCV-specific T cells using a "recombinant adenoviral vector strategy" in human volunteers. In total, 41 healthy adults took part in the study."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recombinant_DNA

:-

Cherry pick from a study we have no access to all you want.


You have no access to it after I gave the link to the information and you quoted from it?

Quote:
They didn't use chimps :crazy:


No, they did not use chimps, but you seem to be the only person without the sufficient number of brain cells to understand that was never stated. What you fail to comprehend is that clinical study on humans is the stage AFTER the testing on chimps was performed. You know, one of those tests outsourced that you wanted information on? Maybe I should follow your advise I just can't be bothered if you are incapable of following a topic.


Is that so?

"The investigators therefore tested rare human adenoviruses, against which most people would not have antibodies, but these proved to be "far less potent" than Ad5 as vaccine vectors. Next, they looked at more than 1000 chimpanzee adenovirus strains to determine if they would be neutralized by human antibodies and able to grow in human laboratory cell lines. The potency of chimpanzee adenovirus vectors varied widely in mice, and a subset were found to be safe and potent in Phase 1 human clinical trials."

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/hepatiti ... ical-trial

:crazy:

You are a waste of time, you argue on something you haven't even fully read up on :-k


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:31 am 
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"The terms animal testing, animal experimentation, animal research, in vivo testing, and vivisection have similar denotations but different connotations. Literally, "vivisection" means the "cutting up" of a living animal, and historically referred only to experiments that involved the dissection of live animals. The term is occasionally used to refer pejoratively to any experiment using living animals; for example, the Encyclopædia Britannica defines "vivisection" as: "Operation on a living animal for experimental rather than healing purposes; more broadly, all experimentation on live animals",[10] although dictionaries point out that the broader definition is "used only by people who are opposed to such work".[11] The word has a negative connotation, implying torture, suffering, and death.[12] The word "vivisection" is preferred by those opposed to this research, whereas scientists typically use the term "animal experimentation".[13][14]
History"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_testing#Definitions


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:36 am 
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http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110608/ ... 1.356.html

Researchers have produced the first mouse model with a functional immune system that is susceptible to infection by the hepatitis C virus — by getting it to express two human genes.


interesting read


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:34 am 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:


No, they did not use chimps, but you seem to be the only person without the sufficient number of brain cells to understand that was never stated. What you fail to comprehend is that clinical study on humans is the stage AFTER the testing on chimps was performed. You know, one of those tests outsourced that you wanted information on? Maybe I should follow your advise I just can't be bothered if you are incapable of following a topic.


Is that so?

"The investigators therefore tested rare human adenoviruses, against which most people would not have antibodies, but these proved to be "far less potent" than Ad5 as vaccine vectors. Next, they looked at more than 1000 chimpanzee adenovirus strains to determine if they would be neutralized by human antibodies and able to grow in human laboratory cell lines. The potency of chimpanzee adenovirus vectors varied widely in mice, and a subset were found to be safe and potent in Phase 1 human clinical trials."

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/hepatiti ... ical-trial

:crazy:

You are a waste of time, you argue on something you haven't even fully read up on :-k


The use of chimps is very expensive so the testing of more than a thousand strains would have been done on mice just because it is more cost effective. That is not an indication of a complete timeline of the development and does not address why the same type viral study performed on chimps was published just a year before the clinical trial.

The chimp study was performed for a reason and such a specific study would not have been performed by any other research group by accident.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:41 am 
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tommee wrote:
"The terms animal testing, animal experimentation, animal research, in vivo testing, and vivisection have similar denotations but different connotations. Literally, "vivisection" means the "cutting up" of a living animal, and historically referred only to experiments that involved the dissection of live animals. The term is occasionally used to refer pejoratively to any experiment using living animals; for example, the Encyclopædia Britannica defines "vivisection" as: "Operation on a living animal for experimental rather than healing purposes; more broadly, all experimentation on live animals",[10] although dictionaries point out that the broader definition is "used only by people who are opposed to such work".[11] The word has a negative connotation, implying torture, suffering, and death.[12] The word "vivisection" is preferred by those opposed to this research, whereas scientists typically use the term "animal experimentation".[13][14]
History"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_testing#Definitions


Wikipedia is such an unimpeachable source, but it does point out why you tried to use the term. Do you know what "pejoratively" means? That is why you used it.

Hint:

Definition of PEJORATIVE
: a word or phrase that has negative connotations or that is intended to disparage or belittle : a pejorative word or phrase

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